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How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

• seivan 15y ago
  How much work did the technical co-founder do compared to you and how much % did he get?
  • andyokdj 15y ago
    he got between 10-20% equity and we were doing a comparable amount of work (10-20hr per week) up until I quit my job. now I'm putting in more hours.
    • akie 15y ago
      Hmm, well I guess you were lucky to have found someone competent who took that offer. I'm not sure if I would be willing to work equal hours for 4 times less equity.
      • goatcurious 15y ago
        I'm assuming the Biz dev cofounder would have taken a similar amount. Which should make the equation a little better. However, I agree - he got a good deal with the cofounders (not sure if that is necessarily a good thing)
    • Alexandervn 15y ago
      Based on the title of your post I was assuming to read something like '..and I picked up Ruby on Rails, a few tutorials, and just started coding..' How much technical knowledge did you have before starting this project? And how much did you learn in the process? Doesn't it feel awkward to say you have 'built' it?
      • andyokdj 15y ago
        I had very rudimentary HTML/CSS knowledge when I first started. Now I'm proficient with HTML/CSS and I'm learning PHP and Javascript through working on the site and studying in my free time. I'd define building as putting pieces together to create something of greater value. I came up with the idea for the site and compiled the team and resources necessary to ship an MVP. Our tech co-founder built the site, our designers built the feel, and our bizdev co-founder built up the content. I managed this process strategically and am heavily involved in each aspect. We all built it together.
        • tomblomfield 15y ago
          "I managed this process strategically" Remind me never to work with ex-bankers
    • chauzer 15y ago
      since he was the technical guy, can you talk about what your role was as the founder? did you pick up any technical stuff to help build the product (technically)? if not, what were your main contributions aside from the idea (i assume coming up with what features the site should have, etc...)?
    • mengine 15y ago
      Not too be too negative but I don't see anything that would take more than a week to build here (technically). The hard part is going to be to stand out among the other thousands of sites with the exact same model.
• fourmii 15y ago
  Congrats on the launch! And thanks for sharing your experience with us. I'm at the start of a very similar process. I've been sitting on an idea over the past year and had a false start with a co-founder. I'm now pushing on on my own, so you've given me some great ideas on the various stages. Thanks for the inspiration!! Good luck!!
  • andyokdj 15y ago
    glad it was a worthwhile read!
  • desertfox508 15y ago
    Fourmii - I'm about a two months away from launching my site after having not one, but two false starts with co-founders that made me decide to go at it alone as well. In hindsight I wish I had a co-founder or at least a mentor who's built and launched a site before. Most of my decisions were off and/or not immediately necessary for the launch. Even choices that I thought were brilliant turned out not as expected. None of this has to do with the product itself, but just getting from development to launch. good luck!
• upthedale 15y ago
  This doesn't really address any practical issues you faced in holding down a full-time job whilst also building the startup. Based on the title, I was expecting more. Something like how you managed your time? That said, congrats on launching.
  • andyokdj 15y ago
    I worked most nights during the week for a 1-2hrs and every weekend, sometimes spending full days working on the weekends. I found the time when I could and delegated work to my cofounders who did the same. It was just a lot of hard work and extra hours. I sacrificed some social life but still managed to enjoy New York hugely over the past year.
    • lusr 15y ago
      I think people underestimate how much you can get done if you commit to at least 1-2 hours during the week EVERY DAY, and at least another 12-16 hours on the weekend. Working during the week is critical, even if it's difficult, simply because it keeps the momentum going and motivation fresh (in my experience of trying it every other way). It's also a deceptive 30-80% additional capacity than what you have merely working weekends. Oh and paying attention to what you're doing and how long it took, and making sure not to waste unnecessary time on nice-to-haves or unnecessary research rather than critical functionality. This is particularly important if you're working alone; I find reviewing my source control checkins and my PivotalTracker progress very helpful in this respect. Then again I ended a great relationship for work so perhaps I'm not the best exemplar of priorities.
      • arscan 15y ago
        Sounds good in practice, but I have a real hard time building anything in 1 hour increments. I need a good 3-4 hours scheduled to make solid progress on any of my side projects. I have a feeling others may have the same problem... and PG described this pretty well in his "makers schedule" essay.
        • 15y ago
• tomgallard 15y ago
  I think the most important issue with building a company as you work full time is the need for absolute leanness. Out of necessity you have far fewer hours than you'd like to work on a project, and this really forces you to focus on whether each thing you do takes you closer to being able to launch.
• goatcurious 15y ago
  How did you manage the legal issues surrounding IP ownership while working at a full time job? Were your employers aware of your startup?
  • joshu 15y ago
    Not all employers care about all IP ownership. They just want stuff done on their time and stuff relevant to their business to be theirs. I also built a project that became a startup while I was at a wallst bank. Although it didn't become a company till after I left.
• PaulHoule 15y ago
  it's hard to make money on obscure music. one of the seo masterminds of our time tried to build a site that featured new bands. the backlinks were a work of art. i guess it ranked well for a bunch of bands nobody had ever heard of but that doesn't help you when people are searching for "hootie and the blowfish"
  • j_s 15y ago
    Can I follow up with you on your experience (even second-hand) with music promotion? This seems like a key part of any attack on the RIAA's stranglehold on music today.
  • 286c8cb04bda 15y ago
    What would I search for if I wanted to know more about this story?
• sabj 15y ago
  60-65 hrs a week isn't so many :)
• jsavimbi 15y ago
  > I obviously needed to find someone technical to build the website, whether a freelancer or a cofounder. Two jokers drop out of Goldman Sachs after a very short employment stint and hire some kid to build them a Facebook-based link-sharing game that targets emerging artists who have no money on the most garish website I've seen in quite some time and all he gets credited with is Lead Engineer. Not even Mr. Lead Engineer. If non of the above doesn't embarrass you from turning down below-market deals with non-technical, inexperienced dreamers than nothing will. You need to recognize that your skill set is a finite commodity and the more time you spend on loser projects like these, the less in-demand you become. On the other hand, everyone knows that you'll do almost anything for cheap and you'll end up as the "coder dude" while the co-founders debate the merits of shitty internet-generated logotypes and branding as they plan their trips to SXSW. tl;dr: Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid.
  • badclient 15y ago
    Until you learn one day that... Goldman guy meets up buddies working M&A, figures a way to flip his stupid-co to Big Corp for millions. This stuff happens every single day. Those crazy M&A deals you see of crappy startups? They are not typically done by nerd_programmer_dude. I am all for extreme precaution when picking cofounders, especially nontech ones, but it also helps to know what the best non-tech cofounders are able to achieve.
  • reason 15y ago
    You have basically speculated the intentions of three people, the relationships they have with one another, and the outcome of their company all from this one line. Pretty impressive. It sounds like you've watched The Social Network one too many times. Constructive criticism would be of much more value. Further, it seems you are completely ignorant to the contributions that skilled businesspeople can make to a startup, and instead you've opted to succumbing to the played-out stereotype of all finance guys preying on the young, nubile, innocent programmer who just wants to build things and do good for the world.
    • jsavimbi 15y ago
• breckinloggins 15y ago
  The most important part of the article: "If you are ever consumed by an idea, focus on that idea and see where it takes you. Your obsession with it likely means that it embodies your passions and values."
  • jcampbell1 15y ago
    Obsession is a dangerous thing. It clouds your judgment and ability to think rationally. Sure, it provides the energy to work all day on Saturday and Sunday, but it also causes you to quit a high paying job to work on a webpage with a play button and a link to share on Facebook.
• reason 15y ago
  Congrats on launching! I can sort of relate with trying to pull off ideas on the side in a field completely unrelated to computer science as someone who wasn't bred from a young age to program. It's definitely hard, and I commend you for putting in the hours and the effort. As for the product: It's a neat idea. I think it'd be cool if you actually gave people on Facebook and promoters in general a small cut of some sort of revenue. It'd give users two incentives, both monetary and social (being known for discovering great undercover bands). Have users compete to be the best 'agents'. Don't mind the haters – it's the growing trend 'round here on HN. If you're not a CS guy, you don't deserve much, basically. That's even more so for people working in business. But you've done far more than the people here can claim to have done. Best of luck! Edit: What made you settle for that one idea? Was it the only one you had, or did you choose it from a list of others you were entertaining? I imagine working in an industry like Finance you haven't got much time to play around with ideas left-and-right, so there's a bit more calculation in picking an idea to move forward with.
• jcampbell1 15y ago
  I am surprised that an ex-finance guy would start this type of company. The music industry is a startup death trap with more than 99% of startups failing. Of all the possible industries to make money, why would someone voluntarily join an industry with declining revenue, nasty lawyers, and a million other competitors?
  • antoko 15y ago
    While I agree with the points you make regarding the industry The OP answers your question in his post - albeit without directly addressing any of your negative points about the industry. For whatever reason, this video incited a thought about the power of free music and the power of fans as promoters of the music they love. This concept consumed me. And... If you are ever consumed by an idea, focus on that idea and see where it takes you. Your obsession with it likely means that it embodies your passions and values.
  • ImprovedSilence 15y ago
    Despite your quoted facts, there is still ENORMOUS room for disruption in the music scene. At least in my opinion, but my biggest problem is broadcast radio, and the fact that there are SEVEN BILLION people in the world, there is no way only five of them are making music I want to hear. I think broadcast and internet radio need to blend together somehow. (yeah yeah, mobile phones, data, pandora, it's happening) But I digress... I like seeing sites getting launched, way to go to make things happen. But sign up with FB, and pollute my FB wall, Imma pass on this app. I think plenty of others don't have my mindset though, so you may gain some traction.
• icode 15y ago
  This reminds me of a startup mantra from the 90s: Eat like a fly, poop like an elephant. So far there is nothing. A website with a music player and a share-on-facebook button. But the blog post sounds like Andy already turned this thing into a billion dollar company and now bows down to the mere mortals to share the wisdom he gathered. On his heroic journy to fame and riches.
  • freshhawk 15y ago
    I didn't catch that but you are absolutely right. I have a feeling this project is going to turn out just like those ones from the 90's did too.
  • eli_gottlieb 15y ago
    >But the blog post sounds like Andy already turned this thing into a billion dollar company and now bows down to the mere mortals to share the wisdom he gathered. On his heroic journy to fame and riches. Well yeah. He worked in finance. That's how they think in finance.
• caublestone 15y ago
  Congrats to you and Moses :P!
• thong 15y ago
  we all too often beat up on founders that stay at their jobs before committing full time to a startup. staying at your job isn't always a bad idea at first. taking the risk out of the startup lifestyle suggests this guy will do the same with investors' money when it comes to the life of his new company.
• yitchelle 15y ago
  First off, congrats on the launching the site! It looks great. I played with it but I am having a hard time trying to figure out the business model. Is the key revenue stream advertising? When I look at last.fm, it also sells other music related items such as ringtones, and also advertises. I can't understand last.fm as well.
• demoo 15y ago
  Congrats on getting your product out there! >Surround yourself with smart people always. I've been struggling with this one for a while. I've cut time drains and people that keep me down, how to go the next step?
• quasisimple 15y ago
  I find this post strange: there is no demonstrated success aside from having the courage to quit a job to pursue a start-up (which is commendable but very different from achieving success), yet the author appears to be giving advice. This feels like a captain starting a voyage who, a few days after leaving shore, sets himself up as an experienced person. This seems more useful from a historical point of view than from a practical point of view. Max Levchin compiled a very nice list of pointers here: http://www.quora.com/Max-Levchin/answers http://www.quora.com/Max-Levchin/answers
• Shane_Wolf 15y ago
  Building a product is obviously extremely important, but without the bzdev skills and ability to launch and scale a business you need a well rounded team. Not just an all start programmer.
• jimmytucson 15y ago
  Did you have a non-compete agreement with the firm you worked for? I would have thought working in financial services your employer would technically have first dibs on anything of value you create.
• madsravn 15y ago
  Congratulations. Very nice post. It could be cool if you could integrate something like promoters got points for dj'ing the song in some club or something.
• fatbat 15y ago
  I wish this article included a rough range of the monetary spend since it looks like most of the work was "outsourced" to others. Unless it was all equities? It would be less impressive if the money amounted to a huge sum! Just wondering...
• jakeonthemove 15y ago
  Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Although I think you should've delved into the details of working on your own project after coming home from a stressful job - it definitely isn't easy - even if you have the drive and are excited, your brain is tired and it's just super hard to work at your full capacity. Hope everything works out though, good luck!
• kappaknight 15y ago
  Interesting post indeed. However, I was expecting you to quit your day job once this was able to pay for itself and the salary of three people. I did not expect to see you quit it to launch this. Am I missing something? What's your monetization plan? How long before you're profitable?
• corkill 15y ago
  Seems to me like you can win by default for people like me. Just want to click a website and start playing music that's decent in one click, I can't be stuffed researching or downloading albums. In europe all the sites I liked in the USA have we are coming soon banners, aka massive opportunity to win by default at the moment in terms of traffic (although to be honest I have no idea how you would get me to buy something, guilt me into supporting artists by showing them pictures of their kids maybe). Minus points: Keeps playing the same songs, I don't really even notice because I am music retarded, but my gf will kill me if I put your website back up. Tried to login with facebook to see if that would play me some different ones, says it wants permission to post to my wall. No way in hell am I giving you that.