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You might not, but you might. And there's nothing about a liberal democracy that says government must have a massive centralized concentration of power, it just

You might not, but you might. And there's nothing about a liberal democracy that says government must have a massive centralized concentration of power, it just happens to be going that way because power begets power.

SanderNL 3y ago
> there's nothing about a liberal democracy that says government must have a massive centralized concentration of power That seems like it simplifies a few things like national security, civic safety of any kind, health care, migration, education. I can see a lot of arrows pointing towards centralization of power and for good reasons. Not saying I'm happy about it, but I really, really struggle to imagine a solution for it that is as stable.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  > national security, civic safety of any kind, health care, migration, education. I can see a lot of arrows pointing towards centralization of power and for good reasons. Many "liberal western democracy" governments do very badly and and make ruinously expensive decisions that go against the interest and will of the citizens on some or all of those things.
  - SanderNL 3y ago
    In contrast to … ? Systems of government in your utopian visions? You have made a sport out of oversimplifying complicated matters before attacking them unfairly. These “governments” you are so fond of attacking are the best we can do in the present and they require enormous, continuous support from regular civilians. It behooves us all to be mindful of this. These “bureaucrats, politicians, judges, police, and other officials” are normal people, probably including members of your family. The enemy you are envisioning might actually exist, but I believe you are pointing your sword(s) in the wrong direction.
    - throwawaylinux 3y ago
      > In contrast to … ? Systems of government in your utopian visions? Non sequitur. One does not have to contrast something with something else to make a statement about it. > You have made a sport out of oversimplifying complicated matters before attacking them unfairly. Strange how fragile a lot of people are about daring to attack the government they are subservient to. I disagree, in fact I see you have made a sport out of oversimplifying complicated matters to defend them unquestioningly. > These “governments” you are so fond of attacking are the best we can do in the present and they require enormous, continuous support from regular civilians. It behooves us all to be mindful of this. That's just some declaration you've made. You've asserted it. And I disagree. It behooves us all to be mindful of government's corruption, incompetence, and growing dangerous power and greed. > These “bureaucrats, politicians, judges, police, and other officials” are normal people, probably including members of your family. The enemy you are envisioning might actually exist, but I believe you are pointing your sword(s) in the wrong direction. The fact you've equated holding people to account for their actions as being their enemy is telling.

SanderNL 3y ago

> there's nothing about a liberal democracy that says government must have a massive centralized concentration of power That seems like it simplifies a few things like national security, civic safety of any kind, health care, migration, education. I can see a lot of arrows pointing towards centralization of power and for good reasons. Not saying I'm happy about it, but I really, really struggle to imagine a solution for it that is as stable.

throwawaylinux 3y ago
> national security, civic safety of any kind, health care, migration, education. I can see a lot of arrows pointing towards centralization of power and for good reasons. Many "liberal western democracy" governments do very badly and and make ruinously expensive decisions that go against the interest and will of the citizens on some or all of those things.
- SanderNL 3y ago
  In contrast to … ? Systems of government in your utopian visions? You have made a sport out of oversimplifying complicated matters before attacking them unfairly. These “governments” you are so fond of attacking are the best we can do in the present and they require enormous, continuous support from regular civilians. It behooves us all to be mindful of this. These “bureaucrats, politicians, judges, police, and other officials” are normal people, probably including members of your family. The enemy you are envisioning might actually exist, but I believe you are pointing your sword(s) in the wrong direction.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    > In contrast to … ? Systems of government in your utopian visions? Non sequitur. One does not have to contrast something with something else to make a statement about it. > You have made a sport out of oversimplifying complicated matters before attacking them unfairly. Strange how fragile a lot of people are about daring to attack the government they are subservient to. I disagree, in fact I see you have made a sport out of oversimplifying complicated matters to defend them unquestioningly. > These “governments” you are so fond of attacking are the best we can do in the present and they require enormous, continuous support from regular civilians. It behooves us all to be mindful of this. That's just some declaration you've made. You've asserted it. And I disagree. It behooves us all to be mindful of government's corruption, incompetence, and growing dangerous power and greed. > These “bureaucrats, politicians, judges, police, and other officials” are normal people, probably including members of your family. The enemy you are envisioning might actually exist, but I believe you are pointing your sword(s) in the wrong direction. The fact you've equated holding people to account for their actions as being their enemy is telling.