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On the flip side, how difficult is it to open dev tools, flip to the network tab, and look at your status code return(s) as a power user? As a power user, it ne

On the flip side, how difficult is it to open dev tools, flip to the network tab, and look at your status code return(s) as a power user? As a power user, it never struck me as a high vertical.

troupo 3y ago
The problem is, now I have to do this every time for shitty dumbed down apps. Prime example: Twitter always responds "oops, something went wrong" even if the backend returns `{ error: "Video aspect ration is not allowed. Try 16:9" }`
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Those "oopsie-doopsie, website made a poopsie" infantilizing error messages are just awful. Tell the user 1. specifically what went wrong, 2. what, if anything, they can do to correct, and 3. a token (like an error message) that could be useful for tech support or reporting a bug. People's heads aren't going to explode if you treat them like functioning adults.
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    You’ve just vastly overestimated the technical capabilities of most Twitter users.
  - dwaite 3y ago
    The meta conversation here is whether there was a decision to NOT give the user information on how to correct the problem - or if it was a process maturity, developer skill, or limited resources that caused the development to focus on the "happy path" only.
funcDropShadow 3y ago
Dev tools of a browser are not what a power user focused browser would need. Think more about being able change keyboard shortcuts. Being able to execute small custom scripts that do stuff with tabs, windows, and pages. Yes I know browser plugins and bookmarklets exist. But why do bookmarklets run with the security context of the currently opened page? I have one self-written bookmarklet to capture the page title and url into emacs for storing it there. Firefox asks me every time I click on that bookmarklet on a new origin (domain, protocol tuple) whether I want to allow that. With no option to avoid that. I have written this piece of code myself I want to use it to enhance my workflow. There is no need to treat it like any javascript hosted on a CDN, or on a Facebook server.
- thrashh 3y ago
  Why? Because a lot of regular people were tricked into running malicious bookmarklets.
  - falcor84 3y ago
    So could we maybe have them not get any privileges by default, but still work?
    - starttoaster 3y ago
      No privileges by default is often at odds with the goal of having something work, at least out of the box.
verall 3y ago
For me personally, it's quite difficult. My day job is C++ app and driver code for rather complex systems yet when I open browser dev tools my eyes glaze over. There is plenty of middle ground of people who are technical but are not web or browser developers.
- starttoaster 3y ago
  I’m not a web or browser developer, the vertical isn’t quite as high as “you need to be working in the web space to understand it.” There’s a lot to look at in there, but there’s some usual suspects tabs that people look at the majority of the time they have dev tools open. And conversely some tabs that you probably only use in the web dev scene. I’d highly recommend perusing the network and storage tabs, for things like status codes and cookies, respectively. As I mentioned, the vertical is nowhere near as high as you’re saying, you’ll figure it out if you look at it more.

On the flip side, how difficult is it to open dev tools, flip to the network tab, and look at your status code return(s) as a power user? As a power user, it never struck me as a high vertical.

troupo 3y ago

The problem is, now I have to do this every time for shitty dumbed down apps. Prime example: Twitter always responds "oops, something went wrong" even if the backend returns `{ error: "Video aspect ration is not allowed. Try 16:9" }`

ryandrake 3y ago
Those "oopsie-doopsie, website made a poopsie" infantilizing error messages are just awful. Tell the user 1. specifically what went wrong, 2. what, if anything, they can do to correct, and 3. a token (like an error message) that could be useful for tech support or reporting a bug. People's heads aren't going to explode if you treat them like functioning adults.
- starttoaster 3y ago
  You’ve just vastly overestimated the technical capabilities of most Twitter users.
- dwaite 3y ago
  The meta conversation here is whether there was a decision to NOT give the user information on how to correct the problem - or if it was a process maturity, developer skill, or limited resources that caused the development to focus on the "happy path" only.

funcDropShadow 3y ago

Dev tools of a browser are not what a power user focused browser would need. Think more about being able change keyboard shortcuts. Being able to execute small custom scripts that do stuff with tabs, windows, and pages. Yes I know browser plugins and bookmarklets exist. But why do bookmarklets run with the security context of the currently opened page? I have one self-written bookmarklet to capture the page title and url into emacs for storing it there. Firefox asks me every time I click on that bookmarklet on a new origin (domain, protocol tuple) whether I want to allow that. With no option to avoid that. I have written this piece of code myself I want to use it to enhance my workflow. There is no need to treat it like any javascript hosted on a CDN, or on a Facebook server.

thrashh 3y ago
Why? Because a lot of regular people were tricked into running malicious bookmarklets.
- falcor84 3y ago
  So could we maybe have them not get any privileges by default, but still work?
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    No privileges by default is often at odds with the goal of having something work, at least out of the box.

verall 3y ago

For me personally, it's quite difficult. My day job is C++ app and driver code for rather complex systems yet when I open browser dev tools my eyes glaze over. There is plenty of middle ground of people who are technical but are not web or browser developers.

starttoaster 3y ago
I’m not a web or browser developer, the vertical isn’t quite as high as “you need to be working in the web space to understand it.” There’s a lot to look at in there, but there’s some usual suspects tabs that people look at the majority of the time they have dev tools open. And conversely some tabs that you probably only use in the web dev scene. I’d highly recommend perusing the network and storage tabs, for things like status codes and cookies, respectively. As I mentioned, the vertical is nowhere near as high as you’re saying, you’ll figure it out if you look at it more.