17 ms·

In my company we have a bug sitting in the to do list for about a year. The root cause was a previous change in requirements that was not well defined and expl

In my company we have a bug sitting in the to do list for about a year. The root cause was a previous change in requirements that was not well defined and explored a couple of years ago. None of the original developers are working for the company anymore. We offered ourselves to fix that bug, but it would take at least a couple of weeks. This bug prevents us to roll out other deemed important features. But, it is just a bug. No product owner wants it to say to his boss he spent 2w of an engineer solving an issue instead of building another feature. The boss of the boss called. He says that this bug is not tolerable. He ask us to fix it. We say we agree and we already have screened and have a solution for it, but it will take 2 weeks. He says he wants that earlier and we say no because no one wants to rush it as we don't want to cause a possible side effect if we fail in something. The solution according to the is to not fail. Everybody goes back to the planning and no one picks that issue because the condition is to do it in half of time without fail while working on a new feature. Go back to line 1.

Etheryte 3y ago
Ah yes, the classic low-skill management maneuver of setting an unrealistic deadline in the hopes that people will then work faster. Naturally, Joel has written about this [0], see point 12. [0] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/03/29/painless-software-schedules/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/03/29/painless-software-...
- gberger 3y ago
  > 8) Put in line items for Vacations, Holidays, etc. If your schedule is going to take about a year, each programmer will probably take 10 to 15 days of vacation. That's so little vacation. America is wild.
  - Ryoung27 3y ago
    Wild is a nice way of saying crushing my soul. I've worked at companies that give you 10 days, that they choose, for your first five years. I have no clue why we do this to ourselves other than the person in charge is not bound by it, and one day we all hope to be in charge.
    - artimaeis 3y ago
      > “I've worked at companies that give you 10 days, _that they choose_, for your first five years.” They choose? I’ve worked in a lot of companies in a lot of parts of the US, and have never heard of employers choosing a worker’s vacation days. That’s awful.
      - kelnos 3y ago
        I think they're talking about holidays. Like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. Pretty much every US company does this.
        vxNsr 3y ago
        Wait, basically every single company in the world gives you their local bank holidays off, here in the US we have 10-15 of those depending on what your particular company decides to give, and then additionally I have yet to hear of a white collar company that doesn’t also give you at a min 12, but lately I’ve seen 15-20 be the norm.
        grumpy_coder 3y ago
        Most countries in the world don't do the 'depending on what your particular company decides to give'. California recognizes 18 holidays. Average holidays given is 6 (https://money.com/columbus-day-who-has-to-work-why/ https://money.com/columbus-day-who-has-to-work-why/) Lately I've seen a lot of 'unlimited' - read as less than your boss takes In Europe 20 is the legal minimum
        bigtunacan 3y ago
        Unlimited isn't the worst possible vacation situation, but it can definitely be bad depending largely on your boss. I took a job with "unlimited vacation" at one company and then AFTER I started my boss "explained" to me that "Unlimited means 4 weeks here." About two months after I started I was moved to a different team new boss. My new boss (same company) had clear deliverables and said, "Unlimited means Unlimited so long as you hit your deliverables." Glad I was moved to a new team.
  - inkcapmushroom 3y ago
    Wait until you hear about the fact that your sick leave time is also covered in those 15 days, so every day that you rest at home when sick is another day less that you get of that vacation you had planned. Definitely a system that encourages people to spread illnesses through the office. There was also this weird flex I've had older coworkers do where they brag about never taking their vacation time and just cashing it out instead at the end of the year. It happens a lot less nowadays but it was definitely part of the "grind culture" to show you were a hard worker before, maybe it still happens in certain fields.
- motbus3 3y ago
  Not related to this case. Once, when I was super young, someone put me in a project that clearly would take 3x more people and 2x more time. They said it was challenging because they couldn't loose the project bla bla and if everything went ok we would all be promoted. People worked almost 24x7 for months. But the project got done with no major delays. When time to credits came, a friend of the boss who was actually in another team got the promotion and we all heard that there were not enough vacancies for promoting the team but they wanted us to know that they appreciated the effort and it wouldn't be forget. Months later, a layoff came and half of the team got laid off. Since then, I only work extra time with OT and I demand that to be written as a plus in my formal evaluations. Does it help? No. But
  - stavros 3y ago
    Yep, companies don't care about your overtime, and neither should you care about their overneeds.
nisegami 3y ago
>He says he wants that earlier and we say no because no one wants to rush it as we don't want to cause a possible side effect if we fail in something. My style is to say sure then take 2 weeks anyway.
- justin_oaks 3y ago
  And generally this works very well! The boss may bluster about "We can't spend that much time!" but ultimately every project takes longer than is estimated. And that is business as usual. The boss often wants to feel like they've negotiated the "price" of an issue and won, regardless of whether they pay full price in the end.

Etheryte 3y ago

Ah yes, the classic low-skill management maneuver of setting an unrealistic deadline in the hopes that people will then work faster. Naturally, Joel has written about this [0], see point 12. [0] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/03/29/painless-software-schedules/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/03/29/painless-software-...

gberger 3y ago
> 8) Put in line items for Vacations, Holidays, etc. If your schedule is going to take about a year, each programmer will probably take 10 to 15 days of vacation. That's so little vacation. America is wild.
- Ryoung27 3y ago
  Wild is a nice way of saying crushing my soul. I've worked at companies that give you 10 days, that they choose, for your first five years. I have no clue why we do this to ourselves other than the person in charge is not bound by it, and one day we all hope to be in charge.
  - artimaeis 3y ago
    > “I've worked at companies that give you 10 days, _that they choose_, for your first five years.” They choose? I’ve worked in a lot of companies in a lot of parts of the US, and have never heard of employers choosing a worker’s vacation days. That’s awful.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      I think they're talking about holidays. Like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. Pretty much every US company does this.
      - vxNsr 3y ago
        Wait, basically every single company in the world gives you their local bank holidays off, here in the US we have 10-15 of those depending on what your particular company decides to give, and then additionally I have yet to hear of a white collar company that doesn’t also give you at a min 12, but lately I’ve seen 15-20 be the norm.
        grumpy_coder 3y ago
        Most countries in the world don't do the 'depending on what your particular company decides to give'. California recognizes 18 holidays. Average holidays given is 6 (https://money.com/columbus-day-who-has-to-work-why/ https://money.com/columbus-day-who-has-to-work-why/) Lately I've seen a lot of 'unlimited' - read as less than your boss takes In Europe 20 is the legal minimum
        bigtunacan 3y ago
        Unlimited isn't the worst possible vacation situation, but it can definitely be bad depending largely on your boss. I took a job with "unlimited vacation" at one company and then AFTER I started my boss "explained" to me that "Unlimited means 4 weeks here." About two months after I started I was moved to a different team new boss. My new boss (same company) had clear deliverables and said, "Unlimited means Unlimited so long as you hit your deliverables." Glad I was moved to a new team.
- inkcapmushroom 3y ago
  Wait until you hear about the fact that your sick leave time is also covered in those 15 days, so every day that you rest at home when sick is another day less that you get of that vacation you had planned. Definitely a system that encourages people to spread illnesses through the office. There was also this weird flex I've had older coworkers do where they brag about never taking their vacation time and just cashing it out instead at the end of the year. It happens a lot less nowadays but it was definitely part of the "grind culture" to show you were a hard worker before, maybe it still happens in certain fields.
motbus3 3y ago
Not related to this case. Once, when I was super young, someone put me in a project that clearly would take 3x more people and 2x more time. They said it was challenging because they couldn't loose the project bla bla and if everything went ok we would all be promoted. People worked almost 24x7 for months. But the project got done with no major delays. When time to credits came, a friend of the boss who was actually in another team got the promotion and we all heard that there were not enough vacancies for promoting the team but they wanted us to know that they appreciated the effort and it wouldn't be forget. Months later, a layoff came and half of the team got laid off. Since then, I only work extra time with OT and I demand that to be written as a plus in my formal evaluations. Does it help? No. But
- stavros 3y ago
  Yep, companies don't care about your overtime, and neither should you care about their overneeds.

nisegami 3y ago

>He says he wants that earlier and we say no because no one wants to rush it as we don't want to cause a possible side effect if we fail in something. My style is to say sure then take 2 weeks anyway.

justin_oaks 3y ago
And generally this works very well! The boss may bluster about "We can't spend that much time!" but ultimately every project takes longer than is estimated. And that is business as usual. The boss often wants to feel like they've negotiated the "price" of an issue and won, regardless of whether they pay full price in the end.