4 ms·

I've yet to notice any event where firefox "screw users over" that was not vastly overblown, especially compared to the competitors. People tend to just judge

I've yet to notice any event where firefox "screw users over" that was not vastly overblown, especially compared to the competitors. People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's very unfair: they do good, and we ask even more of them.

godelski 3y ago
[flagged]
worble 3y ago
I know that its against the rules to imply this, but seriously, there is always so much vitriol that I just don't understand thrown towards Firefox every update that it really gets the old noggin get going. Can we seriously not even contemplate the idea that there might be a certain corporate entity out there with a vested interest in ensuring that Firefox usage is kept deliberately low while at the same ensuring they _just_ enough funding to keep going so they can point to it and say "look, we're not a monopoly!"
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  How many members of this very forum are straight up google employees, complete with regular internal propaganda efforts to reassure employees that aktually, google is the good guys protecting you from the evil, politically driven mozilla?
- godelski 3y ago
  Honestly in my original comment I almost tried to make a joke about how this website calls conspiracy on far less. But I didn't know how to properly do it and so removed it. But yeah, you're not alone in thinking this looks like astroturfing. But I'm not entirely convinced it is not-natural. FF did fuck up in the past, but I think people are still angry about the browser 10 years ago and not updating their beliefs. I think there is also a bias because Mozilla is 501c and so their fuck-ups and everything is out in the open. It's like comparing a democracy to an autocracy, and thinking the autocracy is better because you hear that the people are doing well and never hear about things going wrong.
  - FeepingCreature 3y ago
    I'm seeing a lot of "boo Mozilla" in this thread, but honestly I'm seeing pretty much zero "yay Chrome"/"yay Google". I think it's more like saying "this democracy has a lot of issues that make me angry" and getting the reply "so you prefer the autocracy? Damn fascist."
serf 3y ago
they're the best game in town, but they've also gone against long term user-base wishes again and again to either 1) try to create wider popularity with feature parity (didn't work) and 2) to capitalize in inappropriate ways that are against the ideals first set forward. It doesn't take a lot of mental effort to realize that the userbase left doesn't want telemetry and third party partnerships; Mozilla knew this, they tried to get away with it and lost goodwill. It's not the thing, it's the attempt to get away with it that irks me. No one except The Paid wanted pocket integration and Mr Robot promotions.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Oh you were definitely harmed by the company using their money to buy a semi-popular bookmarking alternative for their users, that someone probably thought their users would like to use, with zero requirement to ever use pocket. My firefox install hasn't even had the pocket icon in however long, I can't remember. Meanwhile google is pushing an attempt to strangle the open internet to death, in the open, for all eyes to see. But no, lets keep pretending that mozilla doing a poorly executed ad is comparable to THAT
Nextgrid 3y ago
> People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's a self-inflicted problem though. Mozilla uses every opportunity to claim they're on your side and want to protect you from the evil guys. The nagging itself is annoying to begin with (and incomprehensible - at least ads make sense from a business point of view - but why interrupt my workflow to let me know about Colorways?), but it's made even worse with all their self-righteous BS about privacy while the browser actually being pretty poor (and not GDPR compliant due to default-on telemetry) in its default configuration.
donkeybeer 3y ago
This opinion might differ from others but my main complaint is with their useless and sometimes hostile UI changes rather than the occasional ad for other Mozilla services. For example recently the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages, which I had to use userchrome to override. Next problem I am trying to tackle right now is favicon being hidden when the audio playing icon is on a tab that seems to have been done in a recent update.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  >the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages What does this mean? My experience using tabs in firefox has not changed in like twenty years!
  - cpeterso 3y ago
    The "user hostile" tab design change was the addition of a space of a few pixels between the tabs and address bar: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463321/firefox-design-redesign-bigger-floatier-tabs https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463321/firefox-design-re...
    - donkeybeer 3y ago
      If they had just thickened the continuous bar connected to the tab a few pixels I probably wont even have noticed. Instead introducing a gap between the tab and its page completely changes its look making it seem like its floating separately and the tabs are independent buttons. But the point is either of these makes no sense at all. What even was the point of this weird change from the perfectly functional and normal looking tabs before?
  - donkeybeer 3y ago
    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1339535 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1339535 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1386107 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1386107 Look what an unholy mess the new change to audio playing status has caused. To summarize, in compact mode you will get the audio playing icon on a tab but it will hide the favicon in that case. In normal mode, and only if you have a small number of tabs, you will find a tiny 'PLAYING' text instead. If you hover over it, you will find the playing icon...which will have hidden the favicon then. UX geniuses with too much time on their hands.

godelski 3y ago

[flagged]

worble 3y ago

I know that its against the rules to imply this, but seriously, there is always so much vitriol that I just don't understand thrown towards Firefox every update that it really gets the old noggin get going. Can we seriously not even contemplate the idea that there might be a certain corporate entity out there with a vested interest in ensuring that Firefox usage is kept deliberately low while at the same ensuring they _just_ enough funding to keep going so they can point to it and say "look, we're not a monopoly!"

mrguyorama 3y ago
How many members of this very forum are straight up google employees, complete with regular internal propaganda efforts to reassure employees that aktually, google is the good guys protecting you from the evil, politically driven mozilla?
godelski 3y ago
Honestly in my original comment I almost tried to make a joke about how this website calls conspiracy on far less. But I didn't know how to properly do it and so removed it. But yeah, you're not alone in thinking this looks like astroturfing. But I'm not entirely convinced it is not-natural. FF did fuck up in the past, but I think people are still angry about the browser 10 years ago and not updating their beliefs. I think there is also a bias because Mozilla is 501c and so their fuck-ups and everything is out in the open. It's like comparing a democracy to an autocracy, and thinking the autocracy is better because you hear that the people are doing well and never hear about things going wrong.
- FeepingCreature 3y ago
  I'm seeing a lot of "boo Mozilla" in this thread, but honestly I'm seeing pretty much zero "yay Chrome"/"yay Google". I think it's more like saying "this democracy has a lot of issues that make me angry" and getting the reply "so you prefer the autocracy? Damn fascist."

serf 3y ago

they're the best game in town, but they've also gone against long term user-base wishes again and again to either 1) try to create wider popularity with feature parity (didn't work) and 2) to capitalize in inappropriate ways that are against the ideals first set forward. It doesn't take a lot of mental effort to realize that the userbase left doesn't want telemetry and third party partnerships; Mozilla knew this, they tried to get away with it and lost goodwill. It's not the thing, it's the attempt to get away with it that irks me. No one except The Paid wanted pocket integration and Mr Robot promotions.

mrguyorama 3y ago
Oh you were definitely harmed by the company using their money to buy a semi-popular bookmarking alternative for their users, that someone probably thought their users would like to use, with zero requirement to ever use pocket. My firefox install hasn't even had the pocket icon in however long, I can't remember. Meanwhile google is pushing an attempt to strangle the open internet to death, in the open, for all eyes to see. But no, lets keep pretending that mozilla doing a poorly executed ad is comparable to THAT

Nextgrid 3y ago

> People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's a self-inflicted problem though. Mozilla uses every opportunity to claim they're on your side and want to protect you from the evil guys. The nagging itself is annoying to begin with (and incomprehensible - at least ads make sense from a business point of view - but why interrupt my workflow to let me know about Colorways?), but it's made even worse with all their self-righteous BS about privacy while the browser actually being pretty poor (and not GDPR compliant due to default-on telemetry) in its default configuration.

donkeybeer 3y ago

This opinion might differ from others but my main complaint is with their useless and sometimes hostile UI changes rather than the occasional ad for other Mozilla services. For example recently the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages, which I had to use userchrome to override. Next problem I am trying to tackle right now is favicon being hidden when the audio playing icon is on a tab that seems to have been done in a recent update.

mrguyorama 3y ago
>the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages What does this mean? My experience using tabs in firefox has not changed in like twenty years!
- cpeterso 3y ago
  The "user hostile" tab design change was the addition of a space of a few pixels between the tabs and address bar: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463321/firefox-design-redesign-bigger-floatier-tabs https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463321/firefox-design-re...
  - donkeybeer 3y ago
    If they had just thickened the continuous bar connected to the tab a few pixels I probably wont even have noticed. Instead introducing a gap between the tab and its page completely changes its look making it seem like its floating separately and the tabs are independent buttons. But the point is either of these makes no sense at all. What even was the point of this weird change from the perfectly functional and normal looking tabs before?
- donkeybeer 3y ago
  https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1339535 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1339535 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1386107 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1386107 Look what an unholy mess the new change to audio playing status has caused. To summarize, in compact mode you will get the audio playing icon on a tab but it will hide the favicon in that case. In normal mode, and only if you have a small number of tabs, you will find a tiny 'PLAYING' text instead. If you hover over it, you will find the playing icon...which will have hidden the favicon then. UX geniuses with too much time on their hands.