5 ms·

Most of Firefox's publicity is based on the fact that they are "on your side". That means that they are held to a much higher standard. Pretending to be on the

by veave 3y ago

Most of Firefox's publicity is based on the fact that they are "on your side". That means that they are held to a much higher standard. Pretending to be on the side of the user and then screwing users up over and over seems like wanting their cake and eating it too? It's funny because, you know, I expect chrome to screw me over while I expect firefox not to screw me over but chrome has screwed me over fewer times than firefox over the years.

shinryuu 3y ago
Perhaps that is because they screw you over in secret? Whenever Firefox makes a mistake it gets very publicised, but whenever chrome does it it's just business as normal so no one really publicises it.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  As far as I know Chrome doesn't use every possible opportunity to nag you about self-righteous BS on how they're better and more private than everyone else? It's one thing to make a mistake or do user-hostile decisions inline with your business model. But it's another to loudly shout about how "good" you are (and everyone else is bad) and then do the exact same thing. Same reason why a policeman or some law-enforcement figure gets more outrage for committing a crime than a normal citizen.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Are you pretending that chrome doesn't advertise? Every single fucking day for a decade now, google.com told me to install chrome, and would even render "pop up" dialogs to that effect on google properties!! What are you all smoking?
    - Nextgrid 3y ago
      An ad telling you to install Chrome is one thing. I don't believe any Google nor Chrome ad had self-righteous BS about privacy, "improving the web" or similar like Mozilla constantly does. Also, ads on websites are one thing. Ads/nags within the browser itself (which I'm already using) are another. I'm pretty sure Google doesn't bother advertising Chrome to users who already use Chrome.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        Okay, then how should mozilla fund firefox? They don't have billions upon billions in advertising revenue to backstop a project that exists only to exert more influence and control of the internet. God damn, people act like money grows on trees when it comes to firefox. I don't care if they flub an attempt at advertising, like the Mr Robot nonsense, because mozilla isn't actively pushing "standards" meant to prevent me from some day being anonymous on the internet or blocking advertising
        Nextgrid 3y ago
        > Okay, then how should mozilla fund firefox? Virtue-signalling and wasting people's times does not contribute to funding either. I'd disagree with but understand actual ads, or promotions for Pocket/VPN/etc... but wasting users' time on virtue-signalling or "Colorways"? (look at my other comments for actual long-term funding ideas for Firefox)
      - godelski 3y ago
        > I don't believe any Google nor Chrome ad had self-righteous BS about privacy, "improving the web" or similar I constantly see Chrome ads about privacy and security. Your argument also isn't consistent. Your complaint is that Mozilla has "failed" to achieve their stated goals. The quotes because they've definitely made progress towards that, but just not to your expectations. That is fine to have higher expectations, but you're literally discouraging Mozilla from working in that direction, where others aren't making those moves __at all__. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. And can we stop copy pasting that line? You're starting to sound like a bot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyUIEYE13jE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyUIEYE13jE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfXnLAa6zWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfXnLAa6zWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9_3umb5LY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9_3umb5LY
Gud 3y ago
How exactly has Firefox “screwed you over”? I’ve used Firefox since it was called Phoenix… although I don’t like the governance of the project, I would hardly say I’ve been screwed over. Firefox has been an amazing product since day one. Meanwhile, Chrome has literally been developed to probe your ass for data they can sell to advertisers.
- veave 3y ago
  Last time it was 2 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360 In that thread there are a few more examples, most of them somewhat recent: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077683
  - godelski 3y ago
    I have never seen these myself, being on FF for most of it's life, but I also fail to see how these "screw you over." Oh my god an ad! I better instead use a browser that has a built in keylogger and created the ad based internet! That'll show those assholes!
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - gmerc 3y ago
    Google: Let’s put DRM in the browser, hijack the address bar, webmanifest Omg, firefox screwed me over by showing me an ad. I see. I think no further illustration needed.
    - iakov 3y ago
      Textbook whataboutism. Google is objectively evil, what that has to do with Firefox, my "user agent", showing me Disney ads?
      - 3y ago
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
I've yet to notice any event where firefox "screw users over" that was not vastly overblown, especially compared to the competitors. People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's very unfair: they do good, and we ask even more of them.
- godelski 3y ago
  [flagged]
- worble 3y ago
  I know that its against the rules to imply this, but seriously, there is always so much vitriol that I just don't understand thrown towards Firefox every update that it really gets the old noggin get going. Can we seriously not even contemplate the idea that there might be a certain corporate entity out there with a vested interest in ensuring that Firefox usage is kept deliberately low while at the same ensuring they _just_ enough funding to keep going so they can point to it and say "look, we're not a monopoly!"
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    How many members of this very forum are straight up google employees, complete with regular internal propaganda efforts to reassure employees that aktually, google is the good guys protecting you from the evil, politically driven mozilla?
  - godelski 3y ago
    Honestly in my original comment I almost tried to make a joke about how this website calls conspiracy on far less. But I didn't know how to properly do it and so removed it. But yeah, you're not alone in thinking this looks like astroturfing. But I'm not entirely convinced it is not-natural. FF did fuck up in the past, but I think people are still angry about the browser 10 years ago and not updating their beliefs. I think there is also a bias because Mozilla is 501c and so their fuck-ups and everything is out in the open. It's like comparing a democracy to an autocracy, and thinking the autocracy is better because you hear that the people are doing well and never hear about things going wrong.

by veave 3y ago

shinryuu 3y ago

Perhaps that is because they screw you over in secret? Whenever Firefox makes a mistake it gets very publicised, but whenever chrome does it it's just business as normal so no one really publicises it.

Nextgrid 3y ago
As far as I know Chrome doesn't use every possible opportunity to nag you about self-righteous BS on how they're better and more private than everyone else? It's one thing to make a mistake or do user-hostile decisions inline with your business model. But it's another to loudly shout about how "good" you are (and everyone else is bad) and then do the exact same thing. Same reason why a policeman or some law-enforcement figure gets more outrage for committing a crime than a normal citizen.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Are you pretending that chrome doesn't advertise? Every single fucking day for a decade now, google.com told me to install chrome, and would even render "pop up" dialogs to that effect on google properties!! What are you all smoking?
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    An ad telling you to install Chrome is one thing. I don't believe any Google nor Chrome ad had self-righteous BS about privacy, "improving the web" or similar like Mozilla constantly does. Also, ads on websites are one thing. Ads/nags within the browser itself (which I'm already using) are another. I'm pretty sure Google doesn't bother advertising Chrome to users who already use Chrome.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Okay, then how should mozilla fund firefox? They don't have billions upon billions in advertising revenue to backstop a project that exists only to exert more influence and control of the internet. God damn, people act like money grows on trees when it comes to firefox. I don't care if they flub an attempt at advertising, like the Mr Robot nonsense, because mozilla isn't actively pushing "standards" meant to prevent me from some day being anonymous on the internet or blocking advertising
      - Nextgrid 3y ago
        > Okay, then how should mozilla fund firefox? Virtue-signalling and wasting people's times does not contribute to funding either. I'd disagree with but understand actual ads, or promotions for Pocket/VPN/etc... but wasting users' time on virtue-signalling or "Colorways"? (look at my other comments for actual long-term funding ideas for Firefox)
    - godelski 3y ago
      > I don't believe any Google nor Chrome ad had self-righteous BS about privacy, "improving the web" or similar I constantly see Chrome ads about privacy and security. Your argument also isn't consistent. Your complaint is that Mozilla has "failed" to achieve their stated goals. The quotes because they've definitely made progress towards that, but just not to your expectations. That is fine to have higher expectations, but you're literally discouraging Mozilla from working in that direction, where others aren't making those moves __at all__. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. And can we stop copy pasting that line? You're starting to sound like a bot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyUIEYE13jE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyUIEYE13jE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfXnLAa6zWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfXnLAa6zWc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9_3umb5LY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9_3umb5LY

Gud 3y ago

How exactly has Firefox “screwed you over”? I’ve used Firefox since it was called Phoenix… although I don’t like the governance of the project, I would hardly say I’ve been screwed over. Firefox has been an amazing product since day one. Meanwhile, Chrome has literally been developed to probe your ass for data they can sell to advertisers.

veave 3y ago
Last time it was 2 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360 In that thread there are a few more examples, most of them somewhat recent: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077683
- godelski 3y ago
  I have never seen these myself, being on FF for most of it's life, but I also fail to see how these "screw you over." Oh my god an ad! I better instead use a browser that has a built in keylogger and created the ad based internet! That'll show those assholes!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- gmerc 3y ago
  Google: Let’s put DRM in the browser, hijack the address bar, webmanifest Omg, firefox screwed me over by showing me an ad. I see. I think no further illustration needed.
  - iakov 3y ago
    Textbook whataboutism. Google is objectively evil, what that has to do with Firefox, my "user agent", showing me Disney ads?
    - 3y ago

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

I've yet to notice any event where firefox "screw users over" that was not vastly overblown, especially compared to the competitors. People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's very unfair: they do good, and we ask even more of them.

godelski 3y ago
[flagged]
worble 3y ago
I know that its against the rules to imply this, but seriously, there is always so much vitriol that I just don't understand thrown towards Firefox every update that it really gets the old noggin get going. Can we seriously not even contemplate the idea that there might be a certain corporate entity out there with a vested interest in ensuring that Firefox usage is kept deliberately low while at the same ensuring they _just_ enough funding to keep going so they can point to it and say "look, we're not a monopoly!"
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  How many members of this very forum are straight up google employees, complete with regular internal propaganda efforts to reassure employees that aktually, google is the good guys protecting you from the evil, politically driven mozilla?
- godelski 3y ago
  Honestly in my original comment I almost tried to make a joke about how this website calls conspiracy on far less. But I didn't know how to properly do it and so removed it. But yeah, you're not alone in thinking this looks like astroturfing. But I'm not entirely convinced it is not-natural. FF did fuck up in the past, but I think people are still angry about the browser 10 years ago and not updating their beliefs. I think there is also a bias because Mozilla is 501c and so their fuck-ups and everything is out in the open. It's like comparing a democracy to an autocracy, and thinking the autocracy is better because you hear that the people are doing well and never hear about things going wrong.