5 ms·

All Doctors treating the average american say to eat better, exercise more, and get more sleep. The only difference is when people don't do these things they s

All Doctors treating the average american say to eat better, exercise more, and get more sleep. The only difference is when people don't do these things they still get better with "Western medicine" vs. blaming the patent.

scotch_drinker 15y ago
That's not true on several fronts. One, doctors spend little time explaining options to patients oftentimes because they don't actually know the options. Drugs are almost always the first line of defense. Obviously, this is partially because drugs are easy. It's also because doctors don't have to worry about it since the USDA says it's fine whereas if they tell a patient to alter their diet and take supplemental iodine to treat hypothyroidism, they have no support for that treatment plan. Secondly, many times patients do not get better. Statins are prescribed in astronomically large numbers in this country to lower cholesterol when the science behind the benefits of lower cholesterol is highly mixed. In many of the supposedly supporting studies, overall mortality is unchanged in groups taking statins. This has nothing to do with blaming the patient. It has everything to do with the fact we have little comprehensive understanding of the long term ramifications of our increasing reliance on chemicals to help us live more healthy lives. Hopefully finding ways to identify drug interactions is a first step towards current complications but it doesn't change the fact that this will only make it easier to prescribe medications for symptoms without treating the underlying cause.
- carbocation 15y ago
  Teach the controversy! In the meantime, the data supporting statins are among the best ever compiled. The advances contributed by groups calling themselves "holistic" are entirely absent. And the willingness of modern medicine to introspect and change in the face of data is slow but meaningful. I asked this same question the other day and still have yet to get a meaningful response: what is the "holistic" treatment for HIV?
  - DanBC 15y ago
    > what is the "holistic" treatment for HIV? There are, unfortunately, people who believe in treating HIV / AIDS with nutrition or folk remedies. A bit of debunking before they arrive. African Potato hinders AIDS treatment (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38168 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38168) Ugandan Health Minister claims to know 3 people cured of HIV through prayer. (1.2m people living with HIV, 150,000 children; this is especially troubling because Uganda is often cited as good example) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=93411 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=93411) South Africa's health minister delayed ARVs for years; President doubts links between HIV and AIDS; 330,000 people die as a direct result. Even after ARVs introduced minister claims olive oil, beetroot and garlic are effective. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=87470 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=87470) South Africans, with the worlds highest HIV caseload, trust traditional medicine because it's wisdom passed on. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73872 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73872) South African Deputy Health Minister sacked after rolling out widely welcomed plan (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73679 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73679) Swaziland government fails to tender properly; a shortage of drugs is covered up by that government promoting folk remedies. (33% of the sexually active adult population were HIV+; about 66% of the population lived on less than $2 per day) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62579 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62579) Dr Matthius Rath is evil. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38577 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38577) Just in case you think all those links are old, it still happens. Here's a link about people selling 37ml of Ubhejane for $210. (About 80% of the Ugandan population earn less than $1 per day.) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=94679 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=94679) It's not all bad news, all that death was useful for some businesses. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62655 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62655) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62604 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62604) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38262 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38262)
    - carbocation 15y ago
      I completely appreciate the research in your post. I should have phrased my question: "what is the successful holistic treatment for HIV?" And I see from your comment that you agree that there appear to be none, so I'm not trying to make it look otherwise.
adammichaelc 15y ago
Just one anecdote on that point. I'm pre-med and I recently shadowed the director of cardiac research (a cardiac surgeon) at the big hospital/medical school in this area. He was asked point-blank by a patient, "I've been reading that with diet and exercise I might be able to reverse my heart disease. What do you think?" The doctor's answer was, "Absolutely not." This is one data point, so it's hardly conclusive, but coming from a doctor who (a) teaches doctors and therefore plants seeds for the next generation and (b) should be an expert on new medical treatments with his position as the director of research, it's troubling. Meanwhile, there is a growing minority of doctors who take patients through an eating "bootcamp" where they help them take out processed foods/white-flour/high-fructose corn syrup from their diet, teach them how to shop and cook plant-based foods, etc. I saw a documentary on it, "Forks Over Knives" I believe. Fascinating stuff. In the documentary, they take a man with advanced heart disease, cut out all meat/dairy/processed foods from his diet, and take before-and-after blood readings (cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.). It was surprising how quickly the intervention reversed his numbers. There are other pioneers working in this area. There's Dr. Terry Wahls, an MD who reversed her multiple sclerosis by eating what some would call a "paleo" diet (only vegetables, fruits, nuts, meat). Here's her TED talk if you're interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc She's currently working on human clinical trials to test this diet-intervention in other patients. To your point, "all doctors say eat better, etc." I have two thoughts. 1. I'm glad you have doctors who have mentioned that but I've never had that experience. 2. A doctor who says, "You really need to eat better," is not quite what we need. For reversible conditions like heart disease, diabetes, (MS?) etc we need doctors who say, "Your next appointment will be with a food specialist/nutritionist. He will help you completely change your eating habits, go shopping with you to get new staple-foods, and you will stick to this new lifestyle for x months. Here's a list of foods you must not eat and here are x great-tasting recipes that are easy to make. Come back in 6 weeks and we'll do another round of blood-tests to see how it's working. If you're not willing to do this I can give you [statins, etc. fill-in-the-drug] but they won't actually treat the disease and may not make you feel better. They will keep you alive though. It's totally up to you and I'll support you in either decision." Just my 2 cents. I think medicine will eventually look more and more like this, but it will take time to change the culture and the traditions of western medicine.

scotch_drinker 15y ago

That's not true on several fronts. One, doctors spend little time explaining options to patients oftentimes because they don't actually know the options. Drugs are almost always the first line of defense. Obviously, this is partially because drugs are easy. It's also because doctors don't have to worry about it since the USDA says it's fine whereas if they tell a patient to alter their diet and take supplemental iodine to treat hypothyroidism, they have no support for that treatment plan. Secondly, many times patients do not get better. Statins are prescribed in astronomically large numbers in this country to lower cholesterol when the science behind the benefits of lower cholesterol is highly mixed. In many of the supposedly supporting studies, overall mortality is unchanged in groups taking statins. This has nothing to do with blaming the patient. It has everything to do with the fact we have little comprehensive understanding of the long term ramifications of our increasing reliance on chemicals to help us live more healthy lives. Hopefully finding ways to identify drug interactions is a first step towards current complications but it doesn't change the fact that this will only make it easier to prescribe medications for symptoms without treating the underlying cause.

carbocation 15y ago
Teach the controversy! In the meantime, the data supporting statins are among the best ever compiled. The advances contributed by groups calling themselves "holistic" are entirely absent. And the willingness of modern medicine to introspect and change in the face of data is slow but meaningful. I asked this same question the other day and still have yet to get a meaningful response: what is the "holistic" treatment for HIV?
- DanBC 15y ago
  > what is the "holistic" treatment for HIV? There are, unfortunately, people who believe in treating HIV / AIDS with nutrition or folk remedies. A bit of debunking before they arrive. African Potato hinders AIDS treatment (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38168 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38168) Ugandan Health Minister claims to know 3 people cured of HIV through prayer. (1.2m people living with HIV, 150,000 children; this is especially troubling because Uganda is often cited as good example) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=93411 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=93411) South Africa's health minister delayed ARVs for years; President doubts links between HIV and AIDS; 330,000 people die as a direct result. Even after ARVs introduced minister claims olive oil, beetroot and garlic are effective. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=87470 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=87470) South Africans, with the worlds highest HIV caseload, trust traditional medicine because it's wisdom passed on. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73872 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73872) South African Deputy Health Minister sacked after rolling out widely welcomed plan (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73679 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=73679) Swaziland government fails to tender properly; a shortage of drugs is covered up by that government promoting folk remedies. (33% of the sexually active adult population were HIV+; about 66% of the population lived on less than $2 per day) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62579 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62579) Dr Matthius Rath is evil. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38577 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38577) Just in case you think all those links are old, it still happens. Here's a link about people selling 37ml of Ubhejane for $210. (About 80% of the Ugandan population earn less than $1 per day.) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=94679 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=94679) It's not all bad news, all that death was useful for some businesses. (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62655 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62655) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62604 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=62604) (http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38262 http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?ReportID=38262)
  - carbocation 15y ago
    I completely appreciate the research in your post. I should have phrased my question: "what is the successful holistic treatment for HIV?" And I see from your comment that you agree that there appear to be none, so I'm not trying to make it look otherwise.

adammichaelc 15y ago

Just one anecdote on that point. I'm pre-med and I recently shadowed the director of cardiac research (a cardiac surgeon) at the big hospital/medical school in this area. He was asked point-blank by a patient, "I've been reading that with diet and exercise I might be able to reverse my heart disease. What do you think?" The doctor's answer was, "Absolutely not." This is one data point, so it's hardly conclusive, but coming from a doctor who (a) teaches doctors and therefore plants seeds for the next generation and (b) should be an expert on new medical treatments with his position as the director of research, it's troubling. Meanwhile, there is a growing minority of doctors who take patients through an eating "bootcamp" where they help them take out processed foods/white-flour/high-fructose corn syrup from their diet, teach them how to shop and cook plant-based foods, etc. I saw a documentary on it, "Forks Over Knives" I believe. Fascinating stuff. In the documentary, they take a man with advanced heart disease, cut out all meat/dairy/processed foods from his diet, and take before-and-after blood readings (cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.). It was surprising how quickly the intervention reversed his numbers. There are other pioneers working in this area. There's Dr. Terry Wahls, an MD who reversed her multiple sclerosis by eating what some would call a "paleo" diet (only vegetables, fruits, nuts, meat). Here's her TED talk if you're interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc She's currently working on human clinical trials to test this diet-intervention in other patients. To your point, "all doctors say eat better, etc." I have two thoughts. 1. I'm glad you have doctors who have mentioned that but I've never had that experience. 2. A doctor who says, "You really need to eat better," is not quite what we need. For reversible conditions like heart disease, diabetes, (MS?) etc we need doctors who say, "Your next appointment will be with a food specialist/nutritionist. He will help you completely change your eating habits, go shopping with you to get new staple-foods, and you will stick to this new lifestyle for x months. Here's a list of foods you must not eat and here are x great-tasting recipes that are easy to make. Come back in 6 weeks and we'll do another round of blood-tests to see how it's working. If you're not willing to do this I can give you [statins, etc. fill-in-the-drug] but they won't actually treat the disease and may not make you feel better. They will keep you alive though. It's totally up to you and I'll support you in either decision." Just my 2 cents. I think medicine will eventually look more and more like this, but it will take time to change the culture and the traditions of western medicine.