5 ms·

One of the first chatbots, ELIZA[0] from 1966, attempted to offer psychotherapeutic assistance to users. I feel like since this was one of the first application

One of the first chatbots, ELIZA[0] from 1966, attempted to offer psychotherapeutic assistance to users. I feel like since this was one of the first applications of chatbots, it would have been strongly iterated upon. But I'm not sure there's a lot of development in the field, apart from virtual companions (like Replika[1]). So two things on my mind: - has there been research on whether such tools could actually be significantly helpful to people facing depression, as individuals and over whole populations? - are existing virtual companions already being prescribed by health professionals? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replika

iancmceachern 3y ago
To me this is the ultimate dystopia. That movie Her seems to explore this topic, I don't know, I isn't see it, even the movie seemed too sad to me.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  But this is the future. Most people are too lonely. People are forced to value jobs and careers more than relationships. 4 years ago, no one would have predicted the success of only fans, a porn influencing site. But here we are, people are working too hard at work to make money and then throwing it away at rent and to pay for imaginary sex. Next step, get them to pay for the emotional relationship. I don't like the future.
  - iancmceachern 3y ago
    I choose to put my effort towards improving those values, rather than new ways to cope with worse ones.
  - rcme 3y ago
    > People are forced to value jobs and careers more than relationships. This feels like an 80s trope. People are lonely because the discomfort of social situations drives them to hide in their smartphones rather than take the time to get to know people. It's a sad prison.
    - a_bonobo 3y ago
      Blaming smartphones is a recent meme for a phenomenon that precedes smartphones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone >Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community is a 2000 nonfiction book by Robert D. Putnam. It was developed from his 1995 essay entitled "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital". Putnam surveys the decline of social capital in the United States since 1950. He has described the reduction in all the forms of in-person social intercourse upon which Americans used to found, educate, and enrich the fabric of their social lives. He argues that this undermines the active civic engagement which a strong democracy requires from its citizens.
      - rcme 3y ago
        Ah yes, I forgot about all of those “meme” studies of youth mental health showing a marked decline during the 1950s like we see today with studies that analyze mental health after the introduction of the smartphone.
        bluefirebrand 3y ago
        Nothing else in youths lives has changed even remotely since 1950s other than the smartphone, it clearly must be the cause!
      - lowkeyoptimist 3y ago
        " He concluded the main cause was technology "individualizing" people's leisure time via television and the Internet, suspecting that "virtual reality helmets" would carry this further in the future." Smartphones fit nicely in his conclusion.
    - nine_zeros 3y ago
      Stop this old person trope. Your friend network is offline. There is life for you offline. For a lot of youngsters, they don't have a network outside. They grew up online. All they know is online. It is really hard for youngsters to get out of when they don't know anyone outside it.
- 1MachineElf 3y ago
  Maybe it's a good thing. As a suicidal person it can be extremely difficult to open up to another human being because my convictions of hopelessness and futility are so strong that to truly communicate them would also mean cursing the listener with knowledge that would make they themselves suicidal. Maybe it wouldn't directly cause them to also become suicidal, but it could be a contributor. It could be one cut in a death of thousands. If you've ever seen the show Smiling Friends, the first episode is an example of how wanting to help can backfire in harmful ways. An AI chatbot might be uniquely useful as a therapy option. I wouldn't have to feel the guilt of corrupting an innocent human being with dark suicidal thoughts. Sometimes a human connection is important for therapy, but the ability to talk things out may actually outweigh it for this context.
  - hyperdimension 3y ago
    > As a suicidal person it can be extremely difficult to open up to another human being because my convictions of hopelessness and futility are so strong that to truly communicate them would also mean cursing the listener with knowledge that would make they themselves suicidal. It's kind of interesting to hear that perspective. I don't worry about making others suicidal (maybe I should?) but instead worry that they'd be overly concerned about me all of the time when, e.g. I've just had a particularly bad day that day. I certainly agree that chatbots seem to be a low-risk alternative to that. It's a never-ending delicate calculus over who you can tell what to considering that here in the US you can be locked up in a psychiatric facility for (at least) 48 hours for being a "harm to yourself." Thus, you can't explore your own feelings with another person and keep them locked inside, which is a much better alternative. /s I'm definitely interested in using a chatbot as long as it itself isn't tied into any suicide hotline reporting scheme.
  - jffhn 3y ago
    Reminds me of this quote: "I am like a broken puppet whose eyes have fallen inside.” You don't want to "break" other puppets.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Meanwhile, in a real dystopia (imperial Russia) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_(short_story) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_(short_story)
- flangola7 3y ago
  I already know people for whom ChatGPT and other chatbots are better friends and partners than almost any they had in real life. Especially for the disabled or consistently unhoused. It is dystopian but so is the existing world. Simulated empathy may be better than none at all.
totetsu 3y ago
Let’s remember to be nice to each other
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
barrysteve 3y ago
Reno 911 has a joke 'We automated the suicide hotline, it was so depressing.' I think this will spread depression.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Wow, no, it attempted to do nothing of the sort! Joseph Weizenbaum's ELIZA, running the DOCTOR script, was created to provide a parody of "the responses of a non-directional psychotherapist in an initial psychiatric interview"[15] and to "demonstrate that the communication between man and machine was superficial".[16] (Wikipedia) We all knew ELIZA was a joke, and we used it that way. ELIZA was so hilarious that it was integrated into Emacs with responses from Zippy the Pinhead. ELIZA was on the level of jive and the Swedish Chef translator. We loved text processing for purposes of humor and entertainment. That tradition is carried forward by the entertainment utility called ChatGPT.
- jgtrosh 3y ago
  Ok, it was apparently not the initial intent, but he did simulate that behaviour, and "Many academics believed that the program would be able to positively influence the lives of many people, particularly those with psychological issues, and that it could aid doctors working on such patients' treatment."
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    I'm sorry, but please take Wikipedia articles with a grain of salt. "Many academics" is commonly known here as "weasel wording". It's a good way to be vague and gain an aura of authenticity without actually saying who you're talking about. On Wikipedia, if someone wants to write "Most academics believe..." or "A majority of scholars say..." then we need to find a consensus reported in a meta-paper, and not just collect a few random references that agree with the position. https://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Citation/1966/02000/A_COMPUTER_METHOD_OF_PSYCHOTHERAPY__PRELIMINARY.5.aspx https://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Citation/1966/02000/A_COMPUTE... In this case, there is one reference to Weizenbaum himself, and there is a reference to a paper with three authors: Colby, Watt, and Gilbert. So we can safely and accurately rephrase your quote as: "Three academics wrote a single paper in which they said they believe..."

iancmceachern 3y ago

To me this is the ultimate dystopia. That movie Her seems to explore this topic, I don't know, I isn't see it, even the movie seemed too sad to me.

nine_zeros 3y ago
But this is the future. Most people are too lonely. People are forced to value jobs and careers more than relationships. 4 years ago, no one would have predicted the success of only fans, a porn influencing site. But here we are, people are working too hard at work to make money and then throwing it away at rent and to pay for imaginary sex. Next step, get them to pay for the emotional relationship. I don't like the future.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  I choose to put my effort towards improving those values, rather than new ways to cope with worse ones.
- rcme 3y ago
  > People are forced to value jobs and careers more than relationships. This feels like an 80s trope. People are lonely because the discomfort of social situations drives them to hide in their smartphones rather than take the time to get to know people. It's a sad prison.
  - a_bonobo 3y ago
    Blaming smartphones is a recent meme for a phenomenon that precedes smartphones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone >Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community is a 2000 nonfiction book by Robert D. Putnam. It was developed from his 1995 essay entitled "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital". Putnam surveys the decline of social capital in the United States since 1950. He has described the reduction in all the forms of in-person social intercourse upon which Americans used to found, educate, and enrich the fabric of their social lives. He argues that this undermines the active civic engagement which a strong democracy requires from its citizens.
    - rcme 3y ago
      Ah yes, I forgot about all of those “meme” studies of youth mental health showing a marked decline during the 1950s like we see today with studies that analyze mental health after the introduction of the smartphone.
      - bluefirebrand 3y ago
        Nothing else in youths lives has changed even remotely since 1950s other than the smartphone, it clearly must be the cause!
    - lowkeyoptimist 3y ago
      " He concluded the main cause was technology "individualizing" people's leisure time via television and the Internet, suspecting that "virtual reality helmets" would carry this further in the future." Smartphones fit nicely in his conclusion.
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    Stop this old person trope. Your friend network is offline. There is life for you offline. For a lot of youngsters, they don't have a network outside. They grew up online. All they know is online. It is really hard for youngsters to get out of when they don't know anyone outside it.
1MachineElf 3y ago
Maybe it's a good thing. As a suicidal person it can be extremely difficult to open up to another human being because my convictions of hopelessness and futility are so strong that to truly communicate them would also mean cursing the listener with knowledge that would make they themselves suicidal. Maybe it wouldn't directly cause them to also become suicidal, but it could be a contributor. It could be one cut in a death of thousands. If you've ever seen the show Smiling Friends, the first episode is an example of how wanting to help can backfire in harmful ways. An AI chatbot might be uniquely useful as a therapy option. I wouldn't have to feel the guilt of corrupting an innocent human being with dark suicidal thoughts. Sometimes a human connection is important for therapy, but the ability to talk things out may actually outweigh it for this context.
- hyperdimension 3y ago
  > As a suicidal person it can be extremely difficult to open up to another human being because my convictions of hopelessness and futility are so strong that to truly communicate them would also mean cursing the listener with knowledge that would make they themselves suicidal. It's kind of interesting to hear that perspective. I don't worry about making others suicidal (maybe I should?) but instead worry that they'd be overly concerned about me all of the time when, e.g. I've just had a particularly bad day that day. I certainly agree that chatbots seem to be a low-risk alternative to that. It's a never-ending delicate calculus over who you can tell what to considering that here in the US you can be locked up in a psychiatric facility for (at least) 48 hours for being a "harm to yourself." Thus, you can't explore your own feelings with another person and keep them locked inside, which is a much better alternative. /s I'm definitely interested in using a chatbot as long as it itself isn't tied into any suicide hotline reporting scheme.
- jffhn 3y ago
  Reminds me of this quote: "I am like a broken puppet whose eyes have fallen inside.” You don't want to "break" other puppets.
renewiltord 3y ago
Meanwhile, in a real dystopia (imperial Russia) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_(short_story) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_(short_story)
flangola7 3y ago
I already know people for whom ChatGPT and other chatbots are better friends and partners than almost any they had in real life. Especially for the disabled or consistently unhoused. It is dystopian but so is the existing world. Simulated empathy may be better than none at all.

totetsu 3y ago

Let’s remember to be nice to each other

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

barrysteve 3y ago

Reno 911 has a joke 'We automated the suicide hotline, it was so depressing.' I think this will spread depression.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

Wow, no, it attempted to do nothing of the sort! Joseph Weizenbaum's ELIZA, running the DOCTOR script, was created to provide a parody of "the responses of a non-directional psychotherapist in an initial psychiatric interview"[15] and to "demonstrate that the communication between man and machine was superficial".[16] (Wikipedia) We all knew ELIZA was a joke, and we used it that way. ELIZA was so hilarious that it was integrated into Emacs with responses from Zippy the Pinhead. ELIZA was on the level of jive and the Swedish Chef translator. We loved text processing for purposes of humor and entertainment. That tradition is carried forward by the entertainment utility called ChatGPT.

jgtrosh 3y ago
Ok, it was apparently not the initial intent, but he did simulate that behaviour, and "Many academics believed that the program would be able to positively influence the lives of many people, particularly those with psychological issues, and that it could aid doctors working on such patients' treatment."
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  I'm sorry, but please take Wikipedia articles with a grain of salt. "Many academics" is commonly known here as "weasel wording". It's a good way to be vague and gain an aura of authenticity without actually saying who you're talking about. On Wikipedia, if someone wants to write "Most academics believe..." or "A majority of scholars say..." then we need to find a consensus reported in a meta-paper, and not just collect a few random references that agree with the position. https://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Citation/1966/02000/A_COMPUTER_METHOD_OF_PSYCHOTHERAPY__PRELIMINARY.5.aspx https://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Citation/1966/02000/A_COMPUTE... In this case, there is one reference to Weizenbaum himself, and there is a reference to a paper with three authors: Colby, Watt, and Gilbert. So we can safely and accurately rephrase your quote as: "Three academics wrote a single paper in which they said they believe..."