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> making them much more maneuverable, which is the most important factor in a dogfight as an example problem in statistics class in grad school, we showed that

> making them much more maneuverable, which is the most important factor in a dogfight as an example problem in statistics class in grad school, we showed that the intuition that maneuverability is most important in a dogfight is incorrect, that it's speed (fly in, take a few shots, zoom away, lather rinse repeat) and that's why WWII fighters were so designed of course, all else being equal, maneuverability is good, but all else is not equal, there are aerodynamic tradeoffs

littlestymaar 3y ago
Note that WWI and WWII offered a very different fighting environment for pilots, so what's true in one environment doesn't necessarily apply to the other (especially since for WWII fighters, the ability to intercept and shoot down enemy bombers was a very important design consideration). I'd be curious to learn more about your statistics example though.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  it was a problem set type question, with details obscured to avoid our preconceptions, then the true picture revealed afterward; thus, no way of looking up that source. In any event, the data was from WWI and the point was that using their own data they drew the wrong conclusions for their theater based on having plotted it wrong. Had they basically transposed some axes (but counterintuitively to the way they were thinking) the correct trendlines popped right out. We had another similar problem based on the shuttle Challenger o-ring failure/temperature data, given to us as racing car blown engines. The point of these exercises was to learn to focus on the data statistically/analytically and not by eyeballing presentations, and the obscuring/revealing of the truth was to drive home the point that "lives can depend on this".
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
"Speed is Life."
WalterBright 3y ago
The Fokker triplane was so agile that it could turn around almost on a dime and face whoever was chasing it.
WalterBright 3y ago
The British fighters would sometimes fly in a circle, each pilot watching the tail of the guy in front. Luftwaffe pilot Hans Joachim Marseille figured out a way to beat it. He'd approach the circle, a bit above it, then dive. He'd pull up towards an airplane on the rim of the circle. Right when his Messerschmitt would stall, he'd be in perfect position to fire into the cockpit of the British pilot, and then fall away. Nobody could follow him. Doing this successfully required a complete mastery of the airplane. Stall too early, and you won't get a shot in. Stall too late, and you fly right in front of the guns of your opponents. Nobody else was able to make this work, and many died trying. He racked up 158 kills. He died when his machine suffered engine failure and he bailed out, only to hit the tailplane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Marseille https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Marseille Although a movie was made of his career, The Star of Afrika, it isn't very good.

littlestymaar 3y ago

Note that WWI and WWII offered a very different fighting environment for pilots, so what's true in one environment doesn't necessarily apply to the other (especially since for WWII fighters, the ability to intercept and shoot down enemy bombers was a very important design consideration). I'd be curious to learn more about your statistics example though.

fsckboy 3y ago
it was a problem set type question, with details obscured to avoid our preconceptions, then the true picture revealed afterward; thus, no way of looking up that source. In any event, the data was from WWI and the point was that using their own data they drew the wrong conclusions for their theater based on having plotted it wrong. Had they basically transposed some axes (but counterintuitively to the way they were thinking) the correct trendlines popped right out. We had another similar problem based on the shuttle Challenger o-ring failure/temperature data, given to us as racing car blown engines. The point of these exercises was to learn to focus on the data statistically/analytically and not by eyeballing presentations, and the obscuring/revealing of the truth was to drive home the point that "lives can depend on this".

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago

"Speed is Life."

WalterBright 3y ago

The Fokker triplane was so agile that it could turn around almost on a dime and face whoever was chasing it.

WalterBright 3y ago

The British fighters would sometimes fly in a circle, each pilot watching the tail of the guy in front. Luftwaffe pilot Hans Joachim Marseille figured out a way to beat it. He'd approach the circle, a bit above it, then dive. He'd pull up towards an airplane on the rim of the circle. Right when his Messerschmitt would stall, he'd be in perfect position to fire into the cockpit of the British pilot, and then fall away. Nobody could follow him. Doing this successfully required a complete mastery of the airplane. Stall too early, and you won't get a shot in. Stall too late, and you fly right in front of the guns of your opponents. Nobody else was able to make this work, and many died trying. He racked up 158 kills. He died when his machine suffered engine failure and he bailed out, only to hit the tailplane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Marseille https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Marseille Although a movie was made of his career, The Star of Afrika, it isn't very good.