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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQn [2:49] I agree it's not an absolute, immutable concept, but I think i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQn [2:49] I agree it's not an absolute, immutable concept, but I think it's a hell of a lot clearer than "good" or "right" or "fair". What makes consent is the fact that either party can opt out at any time for any/no reason. It's consensual because we are decision-making agents, and in spite of privation we can still choose to refuse to transact. Consent is violated by force or direct threat of force, not by the circumstances the transacting parties may find themselves in. If you're very horny can you still refuse to consent to sex? If you happen to be dying of thirst and I offer you a glass of water, can you refuse? You can. Are there may reasons why you would? I don't imagine so. Does it follow there there are no circumstances under which anyone would refuse? It does not.

ses1984 3y ago
Did anyone get my consent before burning coal and spewing toxic gas into the atmosphere? Did anyone get my consent before pulling all the fish out of the ocean? Did anyone get my consent before dumping toxic chemicals into the river that runs through my backyard?
- thegrimmest 3y ago
  These are are problems of the commons[1], and do need governance. They don't however represent direct interactions between people (unlike say employment or sex) and so consent isn't really in-scope here. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons
  - ses1984 3y ago
    Then let’s consider algorithmic driven gig work as a new type of problem of the commons. At one point damage to the environment wasn’t considered a problem of the commons.
    - thegrimmest 3y ago
      It's not though, it's simply another option in the market. More options are always better than fewer. No one is forcing anyone to take these gigs, and the relationship between gig provider and worker is frankly none of anyone else's business so long as it's consensual. There is none of your air or water being contaminated.
      - ses1984 3y ago
        Well we disagree about what consent means, among a lot of other things.
        thegrimmest 3y ago
        I'm just using the common definition, as applied to personal/romantic/sexual relationships. I even linked a video that quite clearly explains the definition.
        ses1984 3y ago
        Ok, the video doesn’t seem to cover whether children can give consent, and you said they can’t, so what’s missing?
        thegrimmest 3y ago
        The legal system that decides when we can give consent (when we become adults, the age of majority) and when we can't (legal incompetence ruled by a court of law).
        ses1984 3y ago
        But you just accept the legal system? What’s the basis? What if it gig work was outlawed?

ses1984 3y ago

Did anyone get my consent before burning coal and spewing toxic gas into the atmosphere? Did anyone get my consent before pulling all the fish out of the ocean? Did anyone get my consent before dumping toxic chemicals into the river that runs through my backyard?

thegrimmest 3y ago
These are are problems of the commons[1], and do need governance. They don't however represent direct interactions between people (unlike say employment or sex) and so consent isn't really in-scope here. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons
- ses1984 3y ago
  Then let’s consider algorithmic driven gig work as a new type of problem of the commons. At one point damage to the environment wasn’t considered a problem of the commons.
  - thegrimmest 3y ago
    It's not though, it's simply another option in the market. More options are always better than fewer. No one is forcing anyone to take these gigs, and the relationship between gig provider and worker is frankly none of anyone else's business so long as it's consensual. There is none of your air or water being contaminated.
    - ses1984 3y ago
      Well we disagree about what consent means, among a lot of other things.
      - thegrimmest 3y ago
        I'm just using the common definition, as applied to personal/romantic/sexual relationships. I even linked a video that quite clearly explains the definition.
        ses1984 3y ago
        Ok, the video doesn’t seem to cover whether children can give consent, and you said they can’t, so what’s missing?
        thegrimmest 3y ago
        The legal system that decides when we can give consent (when we become adults, the age of majority) and when we can't (legal incompetence ruled by a court of law).
        ses1984 3y ago
        But you just accept the legal system? What’s the basis? What if it gig work was outlawed?