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if you lost your home tomorrow and had to live on the street, even without turning to alcohol would your mental state be happy and enthusiastic or depressed?

akira2501 3y ago
So.. we're back to the beginning. Did they lose the home and turn to drugs, or did drugs eventually lead them to a place where they couldn't keep their home? If it's the latter, then simply gifting them a home changes nothing. Further.. you're suggesting that without a home people _cannot possibly be mentally healthy_ and will ultimately be forced into alcohol or drugs. Do you really believe that? And again, if so, why do you believe this and did it come from some particular source?
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > So.. we’re back to the beginning. Did they lose the home and turn to drugs, or did drugs eventually lead them to a place where they couldn’t keep their home? Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. The systems problem of what is causing their current problems is often more involved and more complex than the historical question of what was the root cause (or were the root causes) of their current situation. > If it’s the latter, then simply gifting them a home changes nothing. In software (as long as its not self-modifying), the root cause(s) of an incorrect behavior are also, pretty much by definition, exactly the things you need to fix to achieve the correct behavior. With systems where problems change the the system, the cause or causes that the problems trace back to in time doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about what you need to do to resolve the problems that are currently present. its true that “simply gifting them a home” (or “simply gifting them behavioral health treatment service, on the other side) isn’t going to solve the problem with co-occurring homeless and behavioral health (mental health and/or substance use disorder) problems. But the degree to which each of those is true does not depend on which problem is the historical antecedent of the other. Homelessness doesn’t stop being a complication to behavioral health treatment because the behavioral health problem occurred first and caused the homelessness, and behavioral health problems don’t stop being a complication in addressing homelessness because the homelessness occurred first and created the behavioral health problems (and those are all true combinatorially if you throw in the physical health problems that are also likely co-occurring, which may either have preceded, or been caused by, or in part each, the homelessness and/or behavioral health problems.) There are domains where “what came first” is the key question to ask in solving a mixture of current problems, but that’s not generally the case, and its not specifically the case with the kinds of problems at issue in this thread. > Further.. you’re suggesting that without a home people _cannot possibly be mentally healthy_ and will ultimately be forced into alcohol or drugs. Do you really believe that? No one said that; looks like a strawman.

akira2501 3y ago

So.. we're back to the beginning. Did they lose the home and turn to drugs, or did drugs eventually lead them to a place where they couldn't keep their home? If it's the latter, then simply gifting them a home changes nothing. Further.. you're suggesting that without a home people _cannot possibly be mentally healthy_ and will ultimately be forced into alcohol or drugs. Do you really believe that? And again, if so, why do you believe this and did it come from some particular source?

dragonwriter 3y ago
> So.. we’re back to the beginning. Did they lose the home and turn to drugs, or did drugs eventually lead them to a place where they couldn’t keep their home? Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. The systems problem of what is causing their current problems is often more involved and more complex than the historical question of what was the root cause (or were the root causes) of their current situation. > If it’s the latter, then simply gifting them a home changes nothing. In software (as long as its not self-modifying), the root cause(s) of an incorrect behavior are also, pretty much by definition, exactly the things you need to fix to achieve the correct behavior. With systems where problems change the the system, the cause or causes that the problems trace back to in time doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about what you need to do to resolve the problems that are currently present. its true that “simply gifting them a home” (or “simply gifting them behavioral health treatment service, on the other side) isn’t going to solve the problem with co-occurring homeless and behavioral health (mental health and/or substance use disorder) problems. But the degree to which each of those is true does not depend on which problem is the historical antecedent of the other. Homelessness doesn’t stop being a complication to behavioral health treatment because the behavioral health problem occurred first and caused the homelessness, and behavioral health problems don’t stop being a complication in addressing homelessness because the homelessness occurred first and created the behavioral health problems (and those are all true combinatorially if you throw in the physical health problems that are also likely co-occurring, which may either have preceded, or been caused by, or in part each, the homelessness and/or behavioral health problems.) There are domains where “what came first” is the key question to ask in solving a mixture of current problems, but that’s not generally the case, and its not specifically the case with the kinds of problems at issue in this thread. > Further.. you’re suggesting that without a home people _cannot possibly be mentally healthy_ and will ultimately be forced into alcohol or drugs. Do you really believe that? No one said that; looks like a strawman.