4 ms·

The important question is, when is Google going to kill this functionality? DocuSign only has to hold out until then.

by crooked-v 3y ago

eclipxe 3y ago
[flagged]
- reaperducer 3y ago
  Sigh. Every HN thread. Sigh. Every Google product.
- deegles 3y ago
  Why is it unwarranted?
  - jader201 3y ago
    Maybe not necessarily unwarranted, but certainly unhelpful. It doesn't really add to interesting/thoughtful discussion in the spirit of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Particularly: > Don't be snarky. Converse curiously > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. These subthreads never really go anywhere, other than fan the flames of Google hate. Again, not necessarily saying they're not warranted, but for folks looking for interesting discussion, it can certainly add noise to the signal.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      Signatures aren’t a move-fast-and-break-things domain. Google’s culture is bad at maintenance and wind-down. I would react negatively to someone sending me a Google e-sign without having considered these questions.
      - rvnx 3y ago
        Inside Google, you usually get more easily promoted if you launch new products, than if you just maintain products. Let's see the moment when Google launches Twitter-bis. It's a matter of time before it's done.
        minutillo 3y ago
        Google Twitter-bis was called Google Buzz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Buzz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Buzz
- crooked-v 3y ago
  Maybe people would stop pattern-matching about it if there wasn't such an obvious pattern.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    "people" don't. This is largely just a hn-ism which I've pretty much never heard outside of this bubble. In any case, repeating a cliche response on any news out of Google isn't any kind of substantive contribution to the discussion and makes for a poor hn comment even if it was true.
    - packetlost 3y ago
      ... did you not read any news at all covering Stadia? Like... any of it? At all??? Google's propensity for killing projects is absolutely in the mainstream mindset.
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  > Every HN thread. No, not every HN thread, but "Every Google product". This is an entirely valid concern borne out by history. Until Google goes to extraordinary measures to prove that it will be unusually long-lived, you should assume that it will be dead in a few years. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    by your logic we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead. historically most projects and companies die too after a few years. but obviously that wouldn't be helpful for discussion or particularly insightful to spam, either.
    - olyjohn 3y ago
      Most people aren't affected by those vaproware products. Most people are tied into Google one way or another, and changes they make can affect everybody.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead It would be totally fair to ask an upstart DocuSign competitor about their wind-down process. The fact that I’m more confident they will have thought that through is the problem.
    - hbn 3y ago
      Show HN threads don't repeatedly come from the same guy popping in with his unlimited amounts of money that he used to make yet another side project that some people will use for a few years while he gathers your data then decides to kill because it wasn't an immediate smashing success, or he wanted to redo it cause the other one was old.
    - ixwt 3y ago
      I would agree with you, if every Show HN was from a single massive company that is a central point of failure.
duringmath 3y ago
Yeah wouldn't want it to go the way of Google Toolbar, that thing would definitely be relevant today.
- krasin 3y ago
  > Yeah wouldn't want it to go the way of Google Toolbar, that thing would've definitely been relevant today. Hm... I briefly was a part of the Google Toolbar team back in 2008. How would it be relevant today? All of the features that I remember, are now a part of the browser itself (whether it's Firefox, Safari, Edge or Chrome/Chromium). That said, the eSignature for Google Docs feature would definitely benefit from some strong (preferably, legal & irrevocable) commitment to keep it alive for 40+ years or more. Otherwise, I fail to see how it's useful.
  - duringmath 3y ago
    Exactly. I was pointing out that not every app/service has to be preserved and supported forever.
    - codetrotter 3y ago
      > Anyway, just thought that whipping out "Google kills products" meme for a mere feature was a bit much. I know I’m beating a dead horse^W^W^W dead Google products but, they really do kill a lot of popular products https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ That being said, if they add eSig for Google Docs I agree; I don’t see why nor how they’d kill that individual feature unless they kill Docs all-together. Which, hopefully, they won’t do for many years yet.
      - duringmath 3y ago
        Some popular products,sure. Much of the listed "casualties" were throwaway wrapper apps that have perfectly fine webapp replacements, apps for platforms that no longer exist, duplicates, and stand alone apps that are now features of bigger apps etc.
      - 3y ago
hedora 3y ago
I wonder what happens to documents that were signed with this thing after they kill the product. Also, I wonder if the person signing the document has to agree to Google's entire ToS in order to sign the document. Congress could fix both issues with some well-thought-out legislation: - Signatures from these things have to support external validation via standard tools (e.g., Google uses PGP or whatever to sign the signature + document + metadata). - If the act of accessing or signing a contract implicitly incorporates other contracts, then either (a) the signature is non-binding of (b) the incorporated contracts are rendered unenforceable, regardless of whether they were agreed to via other means.
- jbverschoor 3y ago
  It's funny, this is exactly what I was wondering.
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  DocuSign should start working on their "Import from Google Docs" feature.
  - HatchedLake721 3y ago
    They can even run a marketing/TV campaign around this, lol. “Google Docs ships with esignatures now… but how long until Google kills another one of their products? Stay safe with DocuSign, import your Google Docs signatures and keep them forever, with or without Google.”
geodel 3y ago
Reminds me of Keyenes : Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent
renewiltord 3y ago
Haha, I asked ChatGPT to make up some HN comments and it's classic. https://chat.openai.com/share/9b69427a-b28c-4080-b097-6a0a786ac70e https://chat.openai.com/share/9b69427a-b28c-4080-b097-6a0a78... The HN/LLM concordance ratio is approaching 1. Eventually, I can just remove comments and then fill them in with ChatGPT instead.

The important question is, when is Google going to kill this functionality? DocuSign only has to hold out until then.

eclipxe 3y ago

[flagged]

reaperducer 3y ago
Sigh. Every HN thread. Sigh. Every Google product.
deegles 3y ago
Why is it unwarranted?
- jader201 3y ago
  Maybe not necessarily unwarranted, but certainly unhelpful. It doesn't really add to interesting/thoughtful discussion in the spirit of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Particularly: > Don't be snarky. Converse curiously > Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. These subthreads never really go anywhere, other than fan the flames of Google hate. Again, not necessarily saying they're not warranted, but for folks looking for interesting discussion, it can certainly add noise to the signal.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    Signatures aren’t a move-fast-and-break-things domain. Google’s culture is bad at maintenance and wind-down. I would react negatively to someone sending me a Google e-sign without having considered these questions.
    - rvnx 3y ago
      Inside Google, you usually get more easily promoted if you launch new products, than if you just maintain products. Let's see the moment when Google launches Twitter-bis. It's a matter of time before it's done.
      - minutillo 3y ago
        Google Twitter-bis was called Google Buzz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Buzz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Buzz
crooked-v 3y ago
Maybe people would stop pattern-matching about it if there wasn't such an obvious pattern.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  "people" don't. This is largely just a hn-ism which I've pretty much never heard outside of this bubble. In any case, repeating a cliche response on any news out of Google isn't any kind of substantive contribution to the discussion and makes for a poor hn comment even if it was true.
  - packetlost 3y ago
    ... did you not read any news at all covering Stadia? Like... any of it? At all??? Google's propensity for killing projects is absolutely in the mainstream mindset.
LeoPanthera 3y ago
> Every HN thread. No, not every HN thread, but "Every Google product". This is an entirely valid concern borne out by history. Until Google goes to extraordinary measures to prove that it will be unusually long-lived, you should assume that it will be dead in a few years. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
- endisneigh 3y ago
  by your logic we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead. historically most projects and companies die too after a few years. but obviously that wouldn't be helpful for discussion or particularly insightful to spam, either.
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    Most people aren't affected by those vaproware products. Most people are tied into Google one way or another, and changes they make can affect everybody.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > we should go into every Show HN and say their project will be dead It would be totally fair to ask an upstart DocuSign competitor about their wind-down process. The fact that I’m more confident they will have thought that through is the problem.
  - hbn 3y ago
    Show HN threads don't repeatedly come from the same guy popping in with his unlimited amounts of money that he used to make yet another side project that some people will use for a few years while he gathers your data then decides to kill because it wasn't an immediate smashing success, or he wanted to redo it cause the other one was old.
  - ixwt 3y ago
    I would agree with you, if every Show HN was from a single massive company that is a central point of failure.

duringmath 3y ago

Yeah wouldn't want it to go the way of Google Toolbar, that thing would definitely be relevant today.

krasin 3y ago
> Yeah wouldn't want it to go the way of Google Toolbar, that thing would've definitely been relevant today. Hm... I briefly was a part of the Google Toolbar team back in 2008. How would it be relevant today? All of the features that I remember, are now a part of the browser itself (whether it's Firefox, Safari, Edge or Chrome/Chromium). That said, the eSignature for Google Docs feature would definitely benefit from some strong (preferably, legal & irrevocable) commitment to keep it alive for 40+ years or more. Otherwise, I fail to see how it's useful.
- duringmath 3y ago
  Exactly. I was pointing out that not every app/service has to be preserved and supported forever.
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    > Anyway, just thought that whipping out "Google kills products" meme for a mere feature was a bit much. I know I’m beating a dead horse^W^W^W dead Google products but, they really do kill a lot of popular products https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ That being said, if they add eSig for Google Docs I agree; I don’t see why nor how they’d kill that individual feature unless they kill Docs all-together. Which, hopefully, they won’t do for many years yet.
    - duringmath 3y ago
      Some popular products,sure. Much of the listed "casualties" were throwaway wrapper apps that have perfectly fine webapp replacements, apps for platforms that no longer exist, duplicates, and stand alone apps that are now features of bigger apps etc.
    - 3y ago

hedora 3y ago

I wonder what happens to documents that were signed with this thing after they kill the product. Also, I wonder if the person signing the document has to agree to Google's entire ToS in order to sign the document. Congress could fix both issues with some well-thought-out legislation: - Signatures from these things have to support external validation via standard tools (e.g., Google uses PGP or whatever to sign the signature + document + metadata). - If the act of accessing or signing a contract implicitly incorporates other contracts, then either (a) the signature is non-binding of (b) the incorporated contracts are rendered unenforceable, regardless of whether they were agreed to via other means.

jbverschoor 3y ago
It's funny, this is exactly what I was wondering.
booleandilemma 3y ago
DocuSign should start working on their "Import from Google Docs" feature.
- HatchedLake721 3y ago
  They can even run a marketing/TV campaign around this, lol. “Google Docs ships with esignatures now… but how long until Google kills another one of their products? Stay safe with DocuSign, import your Google Docs signatures and keep them forever, with or without Google.”

geodel 3y ago

Reminds me of Keyenes : Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent

renewiltord 3y ago

Haha, I asked ChatGPT to make up some HN comments and it's classic. https://chat.openai.com/share/9b69427a-b28c-4080-b097-6a0a786ac70e https://chat.openai.com/share/9b69427a-b28c-4080-b097-6a0a78... The HN/LLM concordance ratio is approaching 1. Eventually, I can just remove comments and then fill them in with ChatGPT instead.