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> Russia has made themselves the enemy of the west Well, either that or the west has decided that Russia is the enemy. I honestly don't buy the saying "Russia

> Russia has made themselves the enemy of the west Well, either that or the west has decided that Russia is the enemy. I honestly don't buy the saying "Russia has made themselves the enemy of the west". Why would anybody want to be the enemy of the global superpower?

qingcharles 3y ago
Why would any sane person want to be an enemy of the West?
- pphysch 3y ago
  IMHO it is only appropriate to call someone "insane" after genuinely trying to understand their actions and motivations.
  - cynicalsecurity 3y ago
    Go try to genuinely understand the actions and motivations of Nazi Germans. Good luck, mate.
    - pphysch 3y ago
      Hitler literally wrote a book on his motivations. He was an insane ideologue and demagogue, based on his writings, actions, and speech. You don't need Anne Applebaum screeds, boosted Reddit comments and a expertly-curated media bubble to determine that Hitler was insane.
- andreygrehov 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - SR2Z 3y ago
    Well, I can tell you for certain that they can't make Russia declare war on its neighbor and commit atrocities against civilians. As long as that's happening, the US can demonize Russia free and clear.
    - andreygrehov 3y ago
      According to François Hollande (who served as President of France from 2012 to 2017), the West has been pumping Ukraine with weapons since 2014. From my point of view, this is a provocation. If it's not for you, please explain why.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > According to François Hollande (who served as President of France from 2012 to 2017), the West has been pumping Ukraine with weapons since 2014. From my point of view, this is a provocation. If it's not for you, please explain why Its not a provocation because it was a response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, which included the occupation of Crimea, and the introduction of Russian troops and Russian-sponsored PMCs (including Wagner), and Russian weapons and other support to Russian-allied local proxy forces into Eastern Ukraine, and which was the start of the still-ongoing war.
        andreygrehov 3y ago
        I appreciate your response. It sounds like you familiar with the topic. You described the core of the problem as the response to a certain event (events in Crimea), meaning you answered the question of "why". Having said that, could you apply the same reasoning and explain why Russia occupied Crimea? What were the events that led to such an outcome? Edit: as a side note, I disagree with you saying that was not a provocation. External military intervention IS a provocation. They could've tried to resolve the issue diplomatically, but they chose not to.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > You described the core of the problem as the response to a certain event (events in Crimea) The 2014 invasion of Ukraine was not, and I did not describe it as, limited to events in Crimea. > Having said that, could you apply the same reasoning and explain why Russia occupied Crimea I will not pretend to explain the agressors’ reasoning, but the context was that it was immediately after the people of Ukraine drove out their former Russian-aligned leader. > External military intervention IS a provocation. It can’t provoke a war that starts before it occurs, and arms deliveries are not military intervention.
- LargeTomato 3y ago
  You are thinking about it in too simplistic of terms. Countries don't "want" to be "enemies". Countries act in their own best interest to maximize resources, security, etc.
joelfried 3y ago
Lithium mines in the Donbas region, perhaps?
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
"Why would anybody want to be the enemy of the global superpower?" In the case of both the Balkan wars and the invasion of Ukraine, it was because staying friends with the global superpower meant that one wouldn’t get control of the lands one claimed.
- 93po 3y ago
  [flagged]
consumer451 3y ago
> Why would anybody want to be the enemy of the global superpower? For the same reason that despots around the world "hate the west." [0] Because it takes the domestic population's eyes off of all the domestic issues such as rampant corruption and curtailment of basic freedoms. [0] See: Iran & North Korea who non-coincidentally are both supplying Russia with arms which are used to kill Ukrainian grandparents and children living peacefully in their villages and cities.
- smolder 3y ago
  They don't just "hate the west" because it distracts their citizens from domestic issues. That's ridiculous. They are resisting the global hegemony in defense of their autonomy. Just like we don't sign up to be slaves, as individuals.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    What does "resisting the global hegemony" have to do with annexing neighboring countries, slaughtering civilians in their homes, and then kidnapping their children?
    - smolder 3y ago
      I'm not in support of war. Don't try to straw man me as a Putin supporter. This is just baiting me into an argument about "who is worse" when that's irrelevant to what I said. To be clear, I'd much rather live here than in Russia, and I also would prefer that Russia wasn't slaughtering people in Ukraine, including their own.
0xDEF 3y ago
Because Russian boomers and nationalists are hellbent on territorial irredentism to the detriment of Ukraine, the Baltic countries, and according to some of their "Greater Russia" maps even Finland.
NicoJuicy 3y ago
Dictators like Putin don't rule by normal logic. In this case it's imperialism: - Donbas: rich on natural resources - Crimea: large amount of gas was found in 2008. Project by shell was ready in late 2013. They invaded in 2014.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  You're forgetting literally the most important parts: Putin wants to be remembered as a unifier of Russia.
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    The Russian elite doesn't give a shit about their country. They just want to milk it dry and enjoy Western lifestyle.
  - NicoJuicy 3y ago
    I don't think he really cares. Sure, he would like that. But if he needs to choose between his "moral code" and his big fat palace. The palace wins
TiredOfLife 3y ago
West decided to start genocide against Ukranians? Or was it Russia?
stjohnswarts 3y ago
They have though. They showed they don't care about borders and that if they're successful in Ukraine then they will just keep trying in the next nation over. Tyrants are never happy and always need more to conquer and to control. You can't just let them roll over other countries because they're a "super power" because evidently they aren't since Ukraine with help from the west is at least keeping them at bay.
- deleted 3y ago
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qingcharles 3y ago

Why would any sane person want to be an enemy of the West?

pphysch 3y ago
IMHO it is only appropriate to call someone "insane" after genuinely trying to understand their actions and motivations.
- cynicalsecurity 3y ago
  Go try to genuinely understand the actions and motivations of Nazi Germans. Good luck, mate.
  - pphysch 3y ago
    Hitler literally wrote a book on his motivations. He was an insane ideologue and demagogue, based on his writings, actions, and speech. You don't need Anne Applebaum screeds, boosted Reddit comments and a expertly-curated media bubble to determine that Hitler was insane.
andreygrehov 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- SR2Z 3y ago
  Well, I can tell you for certain that they can't make Russia declare war on its neighbor and commit atrocities against civilians. As long as that's happening, the US can demonize Russia free and clear.
  - andreygrehov 3y ago
    According to François Hollande (who served as President of France from 2012 to 2017), the West has been pumping Ukraine with weapons since 2014. From my point of view, this is a provocation. If it's not for you, please explain why.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > According to François Hollande (who served as President of France from 2012 to 2017), the West has been pumping Ukraine with weapons since 2014. From my point of view, this is a provocation. If it's not for you, please explain why Its not a provocation because it was a response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, which included the occupation of Crimea, and the introduction of Russian troops and Russian-sponsored PMCs (including Wagner), and Russian weapons and other support to Russian-allied local proxy forces into Eastern Ukraine, and which was the start of the still-ongoing war.
      - andreygrehov 3y ago
        I appreciate your response. It sounds like you familiar with the topic. You described the core of the problem as the response to a certain event (events in Crimea), meaning you answered the question of "why". Having said that, could you apply the same reasoning and explain why Russia occupied Crimea? What were the events that led to such an outcome? Edit: as a side note, I disagree with you saying that was not a provocation. External military intervention IS a provocation. They could've tried to resolve the issue diplomatically, but they chose not to.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > You described the core of the problem as the response to a certain event (events in Crimea) The 2014 invasion of Ukraine was not, and I did not describe it as, limited to events in Crimea. > Having said that, could you apply the same reasoning and explain why Russia occupied Crimea I will not pretend to explain the agressors’ reasoning, but the context was that it was immediately after the people of Ukraine drove out their former Russian-aligned leader. > External military intervention IS a provocation. It can’t provoke a war that starts before it occurs, and arms deliveries are not military intervention.
LargeTomato 3y ago
You are thinking about it in too simplistic of terms. Countries don't "want" to be "enemies". Countries act in their own best interest to maximize resources, security, etc.

joelfried 3y ago

Lithium mines in the Donbas region, perhaps?

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

"Why would anybody want to be the enemy of the global superpower?" In the case of both the Balkan wars and the invasion of Ukraine, it was because staying friends with the global superpower meant that one wouldn’t get control of the lands one claimed.

93po 3y ago
[flagged]

consumer451 3y ago

> Why would anybody want to be the enemy of the global superpower? For the same reason that despots around the world "hate the west." [0] Because it takes the domestic population's eyes off of all the domestic issues such as rampant corruption and curtailment of basic freedoms. [0] See: Iran & North Korea who non-coincidentally are both supplying Russia with arms which are used to kill Ukrainian grandparents and children living peacefully in their villages and cities.

smolder 3y ago
They don't just "hate the west" because it distracts their citizens from domestic issues. That's ridiculous. They are resisting the global hegemony in defense of their autonomy. Just like we don't sign up to be slaves, as individuals.
- consumer451 3y ago
  What does "resisting the global hegemony" have to do with annexing neighboring countries, slaughtering civilians in their homes, and then kidnapping their children?
  - smolder 3y ago
    I'm not in support of war. Don't try to straw man me as a Putin supporter. This is just baiting me into an argument about "who is worse" when that's irrelevant to what I said. To be clear, I'd much rather live here than in Russia, and I also would prefer that Russia wasn't slaughtering people in Ukraine, including their own.

0xDEF 3y ago

Because Russian boomers and nationalists are hellbent on territorial irredentism to the detriment of Ukraine, the Baltic countries, and according to some of their "Greater Russia" maps even Finland.

NicoJuicy 3y ago

Dictators like Putin don't rule by normal logic. In this case it's imperialism: - Donbas: rich on natural resources - Crimea: large amount of gas was found in 2008. Project by shell was ready in late 2013. They invaded in 2014.

mrguyorama 3y ago
You're forgetting literally the most important parts: Putin wants to be remembered as a unifier of Russia.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  The Russian elite doesn't give a shit about their country. They just want to milk it dry and enjoy Western lifestyle.
- NicoJuicy 3y ago
  I don't think he really cares. Sure, he would like that. But if he needs to choose between his "moral code" and his big fat palace. The palace wins

TiredOfLife 3y ago

West decided to start genocide against Ukranians? Or was it Russia?

stjohnswarts 3y ago

They have though. They showed they don't care about borders and that if they're successful in Ukraine then they will just keep trying in the next nation over. Tyrants are never happy and always need more to conquer and to control. You can't just let them roll over other countries because they're a "super power" because evidently they aren't since Ukraine with help from the west is at least keeping them at bay.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]