4 ms·

It’s a similar problem to the scientific journals that extort scientists. The elite universities are not primarily selling education they’re selling prestige.

It’s a similar problem to the scientific journals that extort scientists. The elite universities are not primarily selling education they’re selling prestige. In academia it’s worse because prestige is the metric for getting grants and status since the pay is bad. It’s also not great in private companies since institutional prestige is used to filter inbound interest, but it’s better because at least there are other ways to prove ability - it’s just harder to get the opportunity. The prestige is also available for direct sale - I think you could pay $5M for a building or something and your kid could go to Stanford (I was told this off the record by a student that worked in admissions) That was the irony with the whole “famous people cheating their way in” news cycle, the schools were angry they were getting a discount on the fee (and probably that this hurt their prestige). Schools like Harvard also hold spots that help their own prestige, in Lisa Brennan-Jobs (great) book Small Fry she talks about her Harvard interview and the woman was basically an ass ignoring her until she mentioned her dad founded a computer company. When the interviewer realized her dad was Steve Jobs she literally got up and left for a moment, then came back with an entirely different demeanor. Lisa expected it to help (she was counting on it), but even she was surprised by the obviousness of it. She was accepted. If you read the admissions content that came out in the affirmative action SCOTUS case you can see how messed up it is. [0] This kind of high status selective scarcity creates perverse incentives. If the goal was actually educating smart people, the behavior of the institutions would be different (probably more ISAs and such), but that’s not the primary goal and the behavior reveals it. [0]: https://colemanhughes.substack.com/p/10-notes-on-the-end-of-affirmative https://colemanhughes.substack.com/p/10-notes-on-the-end-of-...

RugnirViking 3y ago
do you have a link to the "admissions content that came out in the affirmative action SCOTUS case"? That sounds very interesting. I found a report on the entire case but its near 300 pages long
- gonehome 3y ago
  This substack quotes some of the relevant bits: https://colemanhughes.substack.com/p/10-notes-on-the-end-of-affirmative https://colemanhughes.substack.com/p/10-notes-on-the-end-of-... Copying here actual conversation (revealed in the lawsuit) between admissions officers at UNC: “I just opened a brown girl who’s an 810 [SAT].” “If its brown and above a 1300 [SAT] put them in for [the] merit/Excel [scholarship].” “Still yes, give these brown babies a shot at these merit $$.” “I am reading an Am. Ind.” “[W]ith these [URM] kids, I’m trying to at least give them the chance to compete even if the [extracurriculars] and essays are just average.” “I don’t think I can admit or defer this brown girl.” “perfect 2400 SAT All 5 on AP one B in 11th” “Brown?!” “Heck no. Asian.” “Of course. Still impressive.” “I just read a blk girl who is an MC and Park nominee.”.... “Stellar academics for a Native Amer/African Amer kid.”.... “I’m going through this trouble because this is a bi-racial (black/white) male.”
  - Gareth321 3y ago
    What. The. Fuck!? I’m actually speechless.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Holy shit I hadn’t read the cert petition and hasn’t seen the quotes. I never believed the assertion that “all white people are racist” because I honestly thought the white people around me didn’t “see race.” This has been extremely eye-opening.
    - prewett 3y ago
      "All white people are racist" is a racist statement itself. And the Harvard admissions department is not representative of "white people".
      - rayiner 3y ago
        I'm referring to that statement because it's something people say, hence the quotes. I'm not saying I agree with its full scope now. But I get where it's coming from more than I did before. While university admissions people aren't representative of white people, they're in the class of people I had always assumed didn't see people in terms of race. I knew affirmative action was a thing, but I kind of assumed it was a mathematical, maybe computerized process. I didn't realize they were sifting through applications saying "oh, here's a hispanic, and that one's a black kid, shoot this one's an asian."
P_I_Staker 3y ago
Yes very much like showing up for a meeting and your defense attorney worked with the prosecutor and gets a case dropped after a conversation about golfing.

RugnirViking 3y ago

do you have a link to the "admissions content that came out in the affirmative action SCOTUS case"? That sounds very interesting. I found a report on the entire case but its near 300 pages long

gonehome 3y ago
This substack quotes some of the relevant bits: https://colemanhughes.substack.com/p/10-notes-on-the-end-of-affirmative https://colemanhughes.substack.com/p/10-notes-on-the-end-of-... Copying here actual conversation (revealed in the lawsuit) between admissions officers at UNC: “I just opened a brown girl who’s an 810 [SAT].” “If its brown and above a 1300 [SAT] put them in for [the] merit/Excel [scholarship].” “Still yes, give these brown babies a shot at these merit $$.” “I am reading an Am. Ind.” “[W]ith these [URM] kids, I’m trying to at least give them the chance to compete even if the [extracurriculars] and essays are just average.” “I don’t think I can admit or defer this brown girl.” “perfect 2400 SAT All 5 on AP one B in 11th” “Brown?!” “Heck no. Asian.” “Of course. Still impressive.” “I just read a blk girl who is an MC and Park nominee.”.... “Stellar academics for a Native Amer/African Amer kid.”.... “I’m going through this trouble because this is a bi-racial (black/white) male.”
- Gareth321 3y ago
  What. The. Fuck!? I’m actually speechless.
- rayiner 3y ago
  Holy shit I hadn’t read the cert petition and hasn’t seen the quotes. I never believed the assertion that “all white people are racist” because I honestly thought the white people around me didn’t “see race.” This has been extremely eye-opening.
  - prewett 3y ago
    "All white people are racist" is a racist statement itself. And the Harvard admissions department is not representative of "white people".
    - rayiner 3y ago
      I'm referring to that statement because it's something people say, hence the quotes. I'm not saying I agree with its full scope now. But I get where it's coming from more than I did before. While university admissions people aren't representative of white people, they're in the class of people I had always assumed didn't see people in terms of race. I knew affirmative action was a thing, but I kind of assumed it was a mathematical, maybe computerized process. I didn't realize they were sifting through applications saying "oh, here's a hispanic, and that one's a black kid, shoot this one's an asian."

P_I_Staker 3y ago

Yes very much like showing up for a meeting and your defense attorney worked with the prosecutor and gets a case dropped after a conversation about golfing.