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It's mildly ironic that one of the drivers of solar, battery and EV uptake in the US is private individuals responding to the fallability of the grid and planni

It's mildly ironic that one of the drivers of solar, battery and EV uptake in the US is private individuals responding to the fallability of the grid and planning for when their connection fails.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Grid fragility leads to distributed resilience while driving down the cost of the tech you mentioned as volume ramps. Innovation cannibalism. Systems working as intended.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Reduced load is reduced funding which leads to poor people dying in heat wave.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Funding goes to shareholders, not infrastructure, which is neglected to juice profits. Micro grids ensures funds stay local, and are governed by the users. What would have become profits is now infrastructure and user savings. Edit: Poor people already die because they can’t afford their utility bills. Micro grids will help more than convincing utilities to be benevolent and reduce utility bills. (Have advocated for low income solar and installed more than one rooftop solar system on the roof of those not of means; their electric rates are locked in for decades, as the systems have a 25 year warranty and will continue to produce after that, while utility fuel prices will continue to rise as will their demand to see a return on equity; AMA)
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Most electric utilities have programs designed to reduce load because they don't want to expand capacity. Programs like replacing your inefficient old fridge, or incandescent to LED bulbs and such. This is going to be especially true as EV adoption takes off. It could be hard to keep up with increases in demand.
    - scrlk 3y ago
      > Most electric utilities have programs designed to reduce load because they don't want to expand capacity. Programs like replacing your inefficient old fridge, or incandescent to LED bulbs and such. I don't think there's anything wrong with going for the cheaper option first (reducing demand via consumer incentives), before building more infrastructure when it's truly needed. Re: EV adoption - I think smart charging will play a large role. E.g. if you come home from work at 1800, do you need to start charging immediately if you're going to leave the house at 0830 the next day? Spreading out EV charging demand over the evening and early morning could reduce the need to add more capacity.
      - hinkley 3y ago
        The reasonable option is probably to trickle charge in case you need to go to the store, then ramp up after peak hours. From a public policy standpoint that matters more while you’re grid powered, but with batteries peak draw affects overall power availability, so you’d still want to charge the vehicle slowly while the AC is on and cooking is happening. Same class of problem, different scale.
        giantg2 3y ago
        It could also be ideal for many people to charge at work during the day. Fleet vehicles would need to charge at night. Plus, if we're using renewable, that's less energy storage needed for the solar generated during the day.
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      TBH, I think EV adoption is mostly a benefit. As consumer appliances go, it is the closest thing to truly addressable demand in common use. Leveling out gw usage is more important than decreasing total gwh used.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      You’re talking about how it starts. I’m talking about how it ends.
  - zaroth 3y ago
    It’s a pithy conjecture, but I’m unconvinced. Technological progress like this is almost always made possible through middle and upper class investment in what start as luxury products. Capitalism drives the innovation cycle which brings scale and efficiency. This is how complex and innovative products become mainstream and affordable. The opposite of poor people dying in heat waves, solar reduces peak stress on the grid making it more resilient and driving down costs.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      You guys only want to talk about externalities after they're already happening to someone. That is not sustainable.
  - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
    I'm not sure about that. Home solar will offload unused power to the grid. And the utility will often only give you kWh credits which don't roll over forever. Homeowners are paying for the utility's infrastructure expansion on their own dime and giving them some proportion of free power. The utility goes from being the primary generator of power to being primarily an interconnection system. That means poor people are getting subsidized power from rich people. Throw in the strong incentive for homeowners to perform power arbitrage and the whole system gets more stable.

It's mildly ironic that one of the drivers of solar, battery and EV uptake in the US is private individuals responding to the fallability of the grid and planning for when their connection fails.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Grid fragility leads to distributed resilience while driving down the cost of the tech you mentioned as volume ramps. Innovation cannibalism. Systems working as intended.

hinkley 3y ago
Reduced load is reduced funding which leads to poor people dying in heat wave.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Funding goes to shareholders, not infrastructure, which is neglected to juice profits. Micro grids ensures funds stay local, and are governed by the users. What would have become profits is now infrastructure and user savings. Edit: Poor people already die because they can’t afford their utility bills. Micro grids will help more than convincing utilities to be benevolent and reduce utility bills. (Have advocated for low income solar and installed more than one rooftop solar system on the roof of those not of means; their electric rates are locked in for decades, as the systems have a 25 year warranty and will continue to produce after that, while utility fuel prices will continue to rise as will their demand to see a return on equity; AMA)
- giantg2 3y ago
  Most electric utilities have programs designed to reduce load because they don't want to expand capacity. Programs like replacing your inefficient old fridge, or incandescent to LED bulbs and such. This is going to be especially true as EV adoption takes off. It could be hard to keep up with increases in demand.
  - scrlk 3y ago
    > Most electric utilities have programs designed to reduce load because they don't want to expand capacity. Programs like replacing your inefficient old fridge, or incandescent to LED bulbs and such. I don't think there's anything wrong with going for the cheaper option first (reducing demand via consumer incentives), before building more infrastructure when it's truly needed. Re: EV adoption - I think smart charging will play a large role. E.g. if you come home from work at 1800, do you need to start charging immediately if you're going to leave the house at 0830 the next day? Spreading out EV charging demand over the evening and early morning could reduce the need to add more capacity.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      The reasonable option is probably to trickle charge in case you need to go to the store, then ramp up after peak hours. From a public policy standpoint that matters more while you’re grid powered, but with batteries peak draw affects overall power availability, so you’d still want to charge the vehicle slowly while the AC is on and cooking is happening. Same class of problem, different scale.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        It could also be ideal for many people to charge at work during the day. Fleet vehicles would need to charge at night. Plus, if we're using renewable, that's less energy storage needed for the solar generated during the day.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    TBH, I think EV adoption is mostly a benefit. As consumer appliances go, it is the closest thing to truly addressable demand in common use. Leveling out gw usage is more important than decreasing total gwh used.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    You’re talking about how it starts. I’m talking about how it ends.
- zaroth 3y ago
  It’s a pithy conjecture, but I’m unconvinced. Technological progress like this is almost always made possible through middle and upper class investment in what start as luxury products. Capitalism drives the innovation cycle which brings scale and efficiency. This is how complex and innovative products become mainstream and affordable. The opposite of poor people dying in heat waves, solar reduces peak stress on the grid making it more resilient and driving down costs.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    You guys only want to talk about externalities after they're already happening to someone. That is not sustainable.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  I'm not sure about that. Home solar will offload unused power to the grid. And the utility will often only give you kWh credits which don't roll over forever. Homeowners are paying for the utility's infrastructure expansion on their own dime and giving them some proportion of free power. The utility goes from being the primary generator of power to being primarily an interconnection system. That means poor people are getting subsidized power from rich people. Throw in the strong incentive for homeowners to perform power arbitrage and the whole system gets more stable.