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Why is it that most "chat/conference" apps become horrible sooner or later? I still remember when teams used to be an OK app. It even had a Linux desktop client

Why is it that most "chat/conference" apps become horrible sooner or later? I still remember when teams used to be an OK app. It even had a Linux desktop client. I remember when slack was actually fast, I remember Skype out being more reliable to make phone calls than my mobile/cell service. Today slack is extremely slow if you add few organisations to it (but at least you can add more than one). Teams has deprecated their Linux desktop client and the only way to use it on Linux is via chrome, but wait, if you use it as part of office365/sharepoint you need to use Firefox for "some" sharepoint links. So essentially you need 2 browsers at all times. Chrome for teams (screen sharing and video), Firefox for some sharepoint links.

graphviz 3y ago
The market rewards features and integration, not performance, as long as an app is usable. Developers devel... I mean features features features.
HPsquared 3y ago
It's easier to add things than fix annoyances.
prepend 3y ago
The key is to be terrible and simple from the beginning. IRC works just as poorly today as 30 years ago.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Which is why its usage has declined ever more and more thanks to Discord, which is a pain in itself. Freenode's collapse in particular pushed a lot of people to just say "fuck it" to IRC in general.
  - zelphirkalt 3y ago
    Although, at least what works today works tomorrow on IRC. Same cannot be claimed from MS Teams or Discord ...
  - mmis1000 3y ago
    I think it is already killed by telegram even before discord emerges. The only thing you can't do on other IM other than IRC is having a really big chatroom that contains thousands of people. But it is no longer the case after telegram. BTW, i think an irc bot is a good target if you are starting to learn writing a network program. The protocol is really simple(don't need complex xml parser...etc) yet requires all technique you need to write a proper client.
    - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
      IRC is so trivial that hosting your own is easy. Telegram is awesome but it's still centralized.
      - mmis1000 3y ago
        The same argument applies to discord. Well discord is great but no self-host, and teamspeak can be self-hosted. The reality? Nobody cares. Even for most tech related communities. Most people just want somewhere they can share a join link to other to allow other to join without hassle.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Freenode collapsing had everything to do with humanity being terrible and nothing to do with IRC itself. Given similar people, similar collapses can happen to Discord or any other communication medium of your choice.
  - prepend 3y ago
    Check again in 30 more years. I’m guessing discord will have zero users and Teams will be on its 10 different product name. But I expect IRC will still have its users. That’s like comparing the US empire to the Roman empire. They haven’t been around long enough to talk about popularity.
zelphirkalt 3y ago
Wait, the MS Teams desktop app is deprecated? Never got any message about that ... Guess I might soon be forced to use double the evil, in Chrome and Teams in Chrome? Wow, the world becomes more dystopian by the day. Perhaps I should quit my job when I am forced to use Chrome. Well gonna use the desktop app for as long as I can. They will probably never fix their broken shit app, so that one can use it from any browser.
nxobject 3y ago
I think part of it is the constant drive to add features – sure, we can do chat and video! But, what if we put background blurring in there? Crap, Zoom has polls, we'll have to add polls now... well, shoot, if we're cranking out features like this and iterating quickly, we might as well use Electron.
ikekkdcjkfke 3y ago
Entreprise wishes i guess? Just look at all the group policies for windows update..
cwkoss 3y ago
> Why is it that most "chat/conference" apps become horrible sooner or later? To 'become' horrible there has to have been a period where it wasn't. AFAIK that doesn't apply to teams, lol
evouga 3y ago
Because after your lean, highly-productive startup team creates the app that everyone loves, you get a bunch of funding and hire thousands of extraneous software developers and then have to find something for them to do.
- db48x 3y ago
  Thousands of engineers and managers and product designers who can only get promoted if they look successful, and who can only look successful if they can add features.
eddythompson80 3y ago
Because believe it or not, a chat/conference is the most easy gateway to an "everything app" just like with WeChat. Afterall, a chat/conference app is a microcosm of the "internet". Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share audio clips too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share video clips too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share live video too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share money too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share conference meetings too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share calendar invites too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share food delivery requests too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share gaming sessions too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share X too. There is no limit on X. The internet is about sharing X. a chat app is about sharing X. There is no bound to how much it can grow really.
- h2odragon 3y ago
  "every program expands until it can read email... make that netnews..."
- akira2501 3y ago
  Instant Message Chat + Anything Else isn't actually a model for anything useful. It's a gross kitchen sink with chunks of forgotten meals clogging up the drain. The insult is these companies have nothing other than "productivity tool" as a label to slap on the side of this fetid and entirely unproductive mess.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  That's why I'm not enthusiastic about Musk's vision for X...
- wolfgang000 3y ago
  I completely agree, I did a very small chat app just for fun, I thought, this is only going to take me a couple of days and before I realized it, that couple of days became weeks and it never felt finished, there was always something to add.
duxup 3y ago
The app that does everything always seems to stink. It's no coincidence that my favorite note taking app is ... Apple's Notes App. I've used other apps but I've found that all that heft from all the extra features makes it more of a hassle for me in the end. I get how it happens, even my current employer / small team are looking into internal documentation routes and ... oh man the list of things people want just goes on and I fear leads to some beastly solution.

graphviz 3y ago

The market rewards features and integration, not performance, as long as an app is usable. Developers devel... I mean features features features.

HPsquared 3y ago

It's easier to add things than fix annoyances.

prepend 3y ago

The key is to be terrible and simple from the beginning. IRC works just as poorly today as 30 years ago.

mschuster91 3y ago
Which is why its usage has declined ever more and more thanks to Discord, which is a pain in itself. Freenode's collapse in particular pushed a lot of people to just say "fuck it" to IRC in general.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  Although, at least what works today works tomorrow on IRC. Same cannot be claimed from MS Teams or Discord ...
- mmis1000 3y ago
  I think it is already killed by telegram even before discord emerges. The only thing you can't do on other IM other than IRC is having a really big chatroom that contains thousands of people. But it is no longer the case after telegram. BTW, i think an irc bot is a good target if you are starting to learn writing a network program. The protocol is really simple(don't need complex xml parser...etc) yet requires all technique you need to write a proper client.
  - tenebrisalietum 3y ago
    IRC is so trivial that hosting your own is easy. Telegram is awesome but it's still centralized.
    - mmis1000 3y ago
      The same argument applies to discord. Well discord is great but no self-host, and teamspeak can be self-hosted. The reality? Nobody cares. Even for most tech related communities. Most people just want somewhere they can share a join link to other to allow other to join without hassle.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Freenode collapsing had everything to do with humanity being terrible and nothing to do with IRC itself. Given similar people, similar collapses can happen to Discord or any other communication medium of your choice.
- prepend 3y ago
  Check again in 30 more years. I’m guessing discord will have zero users and Teams will be on its 10 different product name. But I expect IRC will still have its users. That’s like comparing the US empire to the Roman empire. They haven’t been around long enough to talk about popularity.

zelphirkalt 3y ago

Wait, the MS Teams desktop app is deprecated? Never got any message about that ... Guess I might soon be forced to use double the evil, in Chrome and Teams in Chrome? Wow, the world becomes more dystopian by the day. Perhaps I should quit my job when I am forced to use Chrome. Well gonna use the desktop app for as long as I can. They will probably never fix their broken shit app, so that one can use it from any browser.

nxobject 3y ago

I think part of it is the constant drive to add features – sure, we can do chat and video! But, what if we put background blurring in there? Crap, Zoom has polls, we'll have to add polls now... well, shoot, if we're cranking out features like this and iterating quickly, we might as well use Electron.

ikekkdcjkfke 3y ago

Entreprise wishes i guess? Just look at all the group policies for windows update..

cwkoss 3y ago

> Why is it that most "chat/conference" apps become horrible sooner or later? To 'become' horrible there has to have been a period where it wasn't. AFAIK that doesn't apply to teams, lol

evouga 3y ago

Because after your lean, highly-productive startup team creates the app that everyone loves, you get a bunch of funding and hire thousands of extraneous software developers and then have to find something for them to do.

db48x 3y ago
Thousands of engineers and managers and product designers who can only get promoted if they look successful, and who can only look successful if they can add features.

eddythompson80 3y ago

Because believe it or not, a chat/conference is the most easy gateway to an "everything app" just like with WeChat. Afterall, a chat/conference app is a microcosm of the "internet". Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share audio clips too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share video clips too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share live video too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share money too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share conference meetings too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share calendar invites too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share food delivery requests too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share gaming sessions too. Your chat app is great but imagine if we can send/share X too. There is no limit on X. The internet is about sharing X. a chat app is about sharing X. There is no bound to how much it can grow really.

h2odragon 3y ago
"every program expands until it can read email... make that netnews..."
akira2501 3y ago
Instant Message Chat + Anything Else isn't actually a model for anything useful. It's a gross kitchen sink with chunks of forgotten meals clogging up the drain. The insult is these companies have nothing other than "productivity tool" as a label to slap on the side of this fetid and entirely unproductive mess.
throwaway290 3y ago
That's why I'm not enthusiastic about Musk's vision for X...
wolfgang000 3y ago
I completely agree, I did a very small chat app just for fun, I thought, this is only going to take me a couple of days and before I realized it, that couple of days became weeks and it never felt finished, there was always something to add.

duxup 3y ago

The app that does everything always seems to stink. It's no coincidence that my favorite note taking app is ... Apple's Notes App. I've used other apps but I've found that all that heft from all the extra features makes it more of a hassle for me in the end. I get how it happens, even my current employer / small team are looking into internal documentation routes and ... oh man the list of things people want just goes on and I fear leads to some beastly solution.