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> Yes, there is nothing the Russians can do with my data that my government hasn't done. I understand anti-government sentiment but whenever I see a statement

> Yes, there is nothing the Russians can do with my data that my government hasn't done. I understand anti-government sentiment but whenever I see a statement like this it makes me devalue anything that comes after it. You really think there is nothing a foreign government might do with your personal data that your government hasn't already done? You really feel like there's a similar level of accountability at stake?

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Given that they live in the US/UK and not in Russia, yes. As I understand it, the claim is not that the US/UK are as evil as Russia, or even more or less morally equivalent. The claim is that the US/UK hoover up online information just like Russia (maybe even more), and that they are more exposed to what the US/UK governments do than they are to what Russia does. Without minimizing the misdeeds of Russia, without resorting to (false) moral equivalence, it's still a defensible point. (Mind you, I'm not sure I agree with it. But it's defensible.)
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  Haven't we seen by now countless claims of the Russian government influencing western democracies through things like ad tech? When millions of us give them our data these kinds of attacks become easier and easier.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Fair point, and something that should be considered. Also, we're essentially giving them a free, large scale open source intelligence feed. But the GRU isn't going to come to my door and arrest me because I searched on the wrong thing, even if I use Yandex. So in that sense, I'm insulated from what they know about me.
someone321 3y ago
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- afavour 3y ago
  > To me, the fact is that before pointing to what wrongs others do, we should fix our own thing. What's the phrase... letting perfect be the enemy of good? We'll never be perfect. So by that logic we won't ever be able to criticise anyone, even if their record is considerably worse than our own. > The US collects so much data about everyone, but people seem to find that ok. On the other hand, Russia collecting data is outrageous. This is such a weird thinking tbh. The US government is accountable to US citizens. There are regular elections where they can vote out a government that acts against their wishes. They have no such power over Russia, an aggressive power currently waging war against a US ally. Equivalence is the weird thinking, IMO. (EDIT: I should add all of this is from the perspective of a US citizen given the OP said “my own [UK] government”. If, in this scenario, you’re neither a US or Russian citizen, yes, I can see why you’d equivocate)
  - trasz4 3y ago
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  - smolder 3y ago
    > What's the phrase... letting perfect be the enemy of good I don't think this applies. When it comes to privacy of its citizens, there is no 'good' in the anglosphere. In the US we have a constitutional amendment specifically about the government not snooping, but it's effectively moot. There is no respect given at all to the privacy of citizens by government.
  - someone321 3y ago
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AnimalMuppet 3y ago

Given that they live in the US/UK and not in Russia, yes. As I understand it, the claim is not that the US/UK are as evil as Russia, or even more or less morally equivalent. The claim is that the US/UK hoover up online information just like Russia (maybe even more), and that they are more exposed to what the US/UK governments do than they are to what Russia does. Without minimizing the misdeeds of Russia, without resorting to (false) moral equivalence, it's still a defensible point. (Mind you, I'm not sure I agree with it. But it's defensible.)

AlecSchueler 3y ago
Haven't we seen by now countless claims of the Russian government influencing western democracies through things like ad tech? When millions of us give them our data these kinds of attacks become easier and easier.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Fair point, and something that should be considered. Also, we're essentially giving them a free, large scale open source intelligence feed. But the GRU isn't going to come to my door and arrest me because I searched on the wrong thing, even if I use Yandex. So in that sense, I'm insulated from what they know about me.

someone321 3y ago

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afavour 3y ago
> To me, the fact is that before pointing to what wrongs others do, we should fix our own thing. What's the phrase... letting perfect be the enemy of good? We'll never be perfect. So by that logic we won't ever be able to criticise anyone, even if their record is considerably worse than our own. > The US collects so much data about everyone, but people seem to find that ok. On the other hand, Russia collecting data is outrageous. This is such a weird thinking tbh. The US government is accountable to US citizens. There are regular elections where they can vote out a government that acts against their wishes. They have no such power over Russia, an aggressive power currently waging war against a US ally. Equivalence is the weird thinking, IMO. (EDIT: I should add all of this is from the perspective of a US citizen given the OP said “my own [UK] government”. If, in this scenario, you’re neither a US or Russian citizen, yes, I can see why you’d equivocate)
- trasz4 3y ago
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- smolder 3y ago
  > What's the phrase... letting perfect be the enemy of good I don't think this applies. When it comes to privacy of its citizens, there is no 'good' in the anglosphere. In the US we have a constitutional amendment specifically about the government not snooping, but it's effectively moot. There is no respect given at all to the privacy of citizens by government.
- someone321 3y ago
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