3 ms·

> How's the vim ecosystem now? Is vimscript still dominant? You can have a full neovim experience with all sorts of modern extensions without using a single li

by ftaghn 3y ago

> How's the vim ecosystem now? Is vimscript still dominant? You can have a full neovim experience with all sorts of modern extensions without using a single line of vimscript. Some people even replace their init (neovim's vimrc) with lua, but I am of the opinion that it is a step too far, as lua isn't particularly adapted to writing configuration files and the result is too verbose to my taste.

kzrdude 3y ago
I have mainly lua config but just put in some vim files where I put bits and functions that were already written in vimscript.
bongobingo1 3y ago
Ah you see, you just wrap that lua in a lisp in some terse macros and there you go, instead of writing `:set formatoptions+=j` (yuck, vimscript!) or `vim.opt.formatoptions:append"j"` (vom, lua!) you can write the clearly superior `(opt formatoptions +j)` (heck yes, ivory tower).
berkes 3y ago
My config is a horrible frankenstein of both. I use lua when examples are in lua or when I need some "logic" (such as assigning defaults to a var and then passing that around/overriding). And that's embedded in vimscript. I don't really like either. VimScript has always been a horror to me, eventhough I've been using vim for some 20 years now, almost exclusively. Lua is "that thing that I should really sit down and learn. But not now, I've got stuff to finish". What does lua -for an end user- offer that something like yaml+python cannot offer? I really won't mind setting all sorts of flags, defaults and vars from some init.yaml, and then have some init.py to handle the few places where I do need actual logic. Why was lua picked, why did vim build its own language and not move to an existing one for its config? Am I just weird for never sitting down and learning lua? Or vimscript? Or both?
- enriquto 3y ago
  independently of vim configuration, lua is a cute general-purpose language worth learning in itself. It is much simpler than python, and the documentation is outstanding.
- CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
  Lua is faster than Python and also easier to embed in vim [1] which are both big advantages for the end user. It means fast plugins and no hassle with having the correct python version. Why Bram build is own language and then doubled down on it with vimscript9 I don't really understand. [1] https://neovim.discourse.group/t/why-was-lua-chosen-for-neovim/343 https://neovim.discourse.group/t/why-was-lua-chosen-for-neov...
  - enriquto 3y ago
    > Why Bram built his own language [...] I don't really understand. What language would have you chosen in 1991 instead of creating vimscript? The vimscript language is a very natural extension[0] of Bill Joy's "ex" language, that was used in vi since 1976. The history of vimscript is not weird, it's just a fairly natural continuation of existing practices. Vimscript9 is a least-friction update for modern times. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Vim_script https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Vim_script
    - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
      I should have written I don't really know anything about. According to your link scripting was only available from '98, at which point Lua and Python were already around, but then I don't know how viable that would have been. Funny you say that about ex, because I find running ex commands from vimscript the most clunky thing about it. In my opinion the least friction for the ecosystem would have been to follow neovim and adapt Lua.

by ftaghn 3y ago

kzrdude 3y ago

I have mainly lua config but just put in some vim files where I put bits and functions that were already written in vimscript.

bongobingo1 3y ago

Ah you see, you just wrap that lua in a lisp in some terse macros and there you go, instead of writing `:set formatoptions+=j` (yuck, vimscript!) or `vim.opt.formatoptions:append"j"` (vom, lua!) you can write the clearly superior `(opt formatoptions +j)` (heck yes, ivory tower).

berkes 3y ago

My config is a horrible frankenstein of both. I use lua when examples are in lua or when I need some "logic" (such as assigning defaults to a var and then passing that around/overriding). And that's embedded in vimscript. I don't really like either. VimScript has always been a horror to me, eventhough I've been using vim for some 20 years now, almost exclusively. Lua is "that thing that I should really sit down and learn. But not now, I've got stuff to finish". What does lua -for an end user- offer that something like yaml+python cannot offer? I really won't mind setting all sorts of flags, defaults and vars from some init.yaml, and then have some init.py to handle the few places where I do need actual logic. Why was lua picked, why did vim build its own language and not move to an existing one for its config? Am I just weird for never sitting down and learning lua? Or vimscript? Or both?

enriquto 3y ago
independently of vim configuration, lua is a cute general-purpose language worth learning in itself. It is much simpler than python, and the documentation is outstanding.
CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
Lua is faster than Python and also easier to embed in vim [1] which are both big advantages for the end user. It means fast plugins and no hassle with having the correct python version. Why Bram build is own language and then doubled down on it with vimscript9 I don't really understand. [1] https://neovim.discourse.group/t/why-was-lua-chosen-for-neovim/343 https://neovim.discourse.group/t/why-was-lua-chosen-for-neov...
- enriquto 3y ago
  > Why Bram built his own language [...] I don't really understand. What language would have you chosen in 1991 instead of creating vimscript? The vimscript language is a very natural extension[0] of Bill Joy's "ex" language, that was used in vi since 1976. The history of vimscript is not weird, it's just a fairly natural continuation of existing practices. Vimscript9 is a least-friction update for modern times. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Vim_script https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_(text_editor)#Vim_script
  - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
    I should have written I don't really know anything about. According to your link scripting was only available from '98, at which point Lua and Python were already around, but then I don't know how viable that would have been. Funny you say that about ex, because I find running ex commands from vimscript the most clunky thing about it. In my opinion the least friction for the ecosystem would have been to follow neovim and adapt Lua.