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With a median rent of $4400 - you need to make ~$53k post-tax just for rent. That's basically ~$75k pre-tax just to afford rent. Then you have a ~36% marginal

With a median rent of $4400 - you need to make ~$53k post-tax just for rent. That's basically ~$75k pre-tax just to afford rent. Then you have a ~36% marginal tax rate, plus a ~10% sales tax (~46% total) on everything else you buy to thrive instead of just survive... You need to make A LOT of money to live anywhere within reasonable commuting distance to Manhattan - unless you've been on rent control for 30 years or your parents bought you a flat or something.

quickthrower2 3y ago
How much space is that buying? Can 2 or 3 share that?
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  In Manhattan proper that is about a 1 bedroom unless you want a very crappy building. 2 can comfortably share one of those in a roommate situation (one gets the bedroom and the other walls off a part of the living room), but 3 people can live in one if at least 2 of them are willing to share a bed (ie a couple).
iamdamian 3y ago
While it's not a perfect solution (or a likely option for most people on HN), there is such a thing as affordable housing in Manhattan and other boroughs. Affordable housing units cost far less than what you've shown here, and I think it's a mistake not to include them. In particular, I think it invalidates your conclusion about the need to make a lot of money to rent in Manhattan.
- iamdamian 3y ago
  This is a first. I got a couple of downvotes, and I don't know why. I think the parent comment is wrong about what they're saying and I'm only really stating facts in my comment. Anyway, for the record, I stand by the above.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dangus 3y ago
This is still “median rent” not “the lowest rent you can find.” You can live in a prime location in Manhattan for about $1000 a month if you’re willing to live in a single room apartment with a shared bathroom and a kitchen that consists of a sink, mini fridge, and microwave. There’s also the reality that people get roommates or otherwise share the cost of rent. And you also don’t have to be in prime Manhattan to have a reasonable commuting distance. If you take the subway from The Bronx to Penn Station you can do it in 40 minutes. NYC also has the country’s best commuter rail situation meaning that a whole bunch of people take commuter rail from suburban locations like New Jersey and Long Island.
- badpun 3y ago
  > You can live in a prime location in Manhattan for about $1000 a month if you’re willing to live in a single room apartment with a shared bathroom and a kitchen that consists of a sink, mini fridge, and microwave Is this an apartment, or just a room with a locked door?
  - dangus 3y ago
    It’s definitely not glamorous or anything. I recommend the YouTube channel “Cash Jordan” if you’d like to check out various NYC real estate at all sorts of price points (along with some vlog-ish content).
- yowzadave 3y ago
  I live in NYC, and I think this is a weak argument, because these coping mechanisms are not viable for people with families. NYC has the long-standing problem where people can scrape by if they are a single person with a good job and no dependencies, but as soon as that person wants to form a family, their options are to be very rich, or to move out of the city. In my case we moved to Queens, which we like well enough, but even here the Rent Is Too Damn High. It's not good for the health of a city to be continually pushing out all but the richest families.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Bluecobra 3y ago
I was surprised to see how high the NYC income tax is on top of the state income tax. 1099’s pay even more, I got ~47% on $75K. The federal, state, and city income tax is progressive so the effective tax rate is a bit lower.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  NYC housing isn't the only place where the grifters have figured out the market rate. They have basically done that on taxation, too. Many people who can afford to are very careful to spend 180 days or less in New York city or state.

quickthrower2 3y ago

How much space is that buying? Can 2 or 3 share that?

pclmulqdq 3y ago
In Manhattan proper that is about a 1 bedroom unless you want a very crappy building. 2 can comfortably share one of those in a roommate situation (one gets the bedroom and the other walls off a part of the living room), but 3 people can live in one if at least 2 of them are willing to share a bed (ie a couple).

iamdamian 3y ago

While it's not a perfect solution (or a likely option for most people on HN), there is such a thing as affordable housing in Manhattan and other boroughs. Affordable housing units cost far less than what you've shown here, and I think it's a mistake not to include them. In particular, I think it invalidates your conclusion about the need to make a lot of money to rent in Manhattan.

iamdamian 3y ago
This is a first. I got a couple of downvotes, and I don't know why. I think the parent comment is wrong about what they're saying and I'm only really stating facts in my comment. Anyway, for the record, I stand by the above.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dangus 3y ago

This is still “median rent” not “the lowest rent you can find.” You can live in a prime location in Manhattan for about $1000 a month if you’re willing to live in a single room apartment with a shared bathroom and a kitchen that consists of a sink, mini fridge, and microwave. There’s also the reality that people get roommates or otherwise share the cost of rent. And you also don’t have to be in prime Manhattan to have a reasonable commuting distance. If you take the subway from The Bronx to Penn Station you can do it in 40 minutes. NYC also has the country’s best commuter rail situation meaning that a whole bunch of people take commuter rail from suburban locations like New Jersey and Long Island.

badpun 3y ago
> You can live in a prime location in Manhattan for about $1000 a month if you’re willing to live in a single room apartment with a shared bathroom and a kitchen that consists of a sink, mini fridge, and microwave Is this an apartment, or just a room with a locked door?
- dangus 3y ago
  It’s definitely not glamorous or anything. I recommend the YouTube channel “Cash Jordan” if you’d like to check out various NYC real estate at all sorts of price points (along with some vlog-ish content).
yowzadave 3y ago
I live in NYC, and I think this is a weak argument, because these coping mechanisms are not viable for people with families. NYC has the long-standing problem where people can scrape by if they are a single person with a good job and no dependencies, but as soon as that person wants to form a family, their options are to be very rich, or to move out of the city. In my case we moved to Queens, which we like well enough, but even here the Rent Is Too Damn High. It's not good for the health of a city to be continually pushing out all but the richest families.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

Bluecobra 3y ago

I was surprised to see how high the NYC income tax is on top of the state income tax. 1099’s pay even more, I got ~47% on $75K. The federal, state, and city income tax is progressive so the effective tax rate is a bit lower.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
NYC housing isn't the only place where the grifters have figured out the market rate. They have basically done that on taxation, too. Many people who can afford to are very careful to spend 180 days or less in New York city or state.