3 ms·

Well I can't speak for anybody else, but me and my partner are pushing mid to late 30s and simply haven't got there because of cost and lack of financial stabil

by nly 3y ago

Well I can't speak for anybody else, but me and my partner are pushing mid to late 30s and simply haven't got there because of cost and lack of financial stability. It's difficult to impossible to survive on a single income like my parents did to raise me, and the cost of childcare is the same as losing one income regardless. For better or worse the economy has been reshaped around the assumption of dual income, full time working couples.

silisili 3y ago
You're right. My wife and I have done the math multiple times, and we'd actually -lose- money if she went back to work. I remember childcare being rather communal in the US, where I lived, as recently as the early 90s. Now that the media and social media has turned everyone against each other, the only way out seemingly is to subsidize child care.
- nly 3y ago
  Well, a support network is one thing. My grandparents certainly babysat me on occasion, but me and my partner are quite far away (over an hours drive) away from any close family. Naturally my parents are also a lot older than my grandparents were as well, so it would be less fair on them. I really don't think the phenomenon of people having fewer kids or having kids later is a mystery!
  - silisili 3y ago
    When I was growing up in the 80s, working class neighborhood, most wives had a part time job. Whoever was off that day would watch the kids. I remember sitting in random houses with 7 or so other kids, eating mac n cheese or bologna sandwiches, waiting for our moms to come pick us up after work. As an adult with my own kid now, it would seem such an idea is a pipe dream.
    - nly 3y ago
      Yeah, the decline in neighbourlyness would be an even more interesting phenomenon to study. My person hunch is back in the day there was a more "we're all in the same boat" feeling at the street level, where everyone had similar socioeconomic backgrounds whereas now that's not true at all. In the past, in the UK, everyone living in a road may have had the same landlord (the local council) but now you can have multi-millionaire with a £50K car living next door to someone in an identical house who is renting privately, on housing benefit, taking the bus to their minimum wage job, and struggling to feed their kids. People are much more willing to give and receive help from their "peers"
      - trealira 3y ago
        I don't think that's the only factor. I think it's also just culture. I grew up on a street (in the US) where many of my neighbors did have the same landlord as my family, but none of us spoke to each other; they were basically strangers like any other. I was born in 2003, so this is more recent than the 1980s.
- ehnto 3y ago
  Genuine question, is it possible childcare facilities are being extortionate, or is it generally a low margin industry? There are a lot of costs increasing that exceed inflation and frankly, exceed fair value exchange, but many of us are caught between a rock and a hard place. Rent is a great example, cars are another. These things aren't true universally, and it seems other countries are able to provide higher quality of life and cheaper services. Are we just being fleeced, are companies expecting more than their fair share?
  - silisili 3y ago
    See other comment I'd made here. In my lifetime, 'daycare' on the whole has went from a favor or job for some teenager, to a viable profession. Today, strict regulations and cost of compliance and well, wages to pay the employees contribute to the exorbitant costs.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
      It utterly absurd that childcare has become a certified industry. If any reasonable person were to take a look at the fossil record, they’d immediately be struck by the dearth certificate carrying mammals. Nay! Childcare qualifications are the trophy of evolutionary maladaption.
    - FeloniousHam 3y ago
      NPR had a short piece on the "broken market" aspect: https://www.npr.org/2023/07/06/1186154271/why-parents-daycare-owners-and-daycare-workers-are-trapped-in-a-broken-market https://www.npr.org/2023/07/06/1186154271/why-parents-daycar...

by nly 3y ago

silisili 3y ago

You're right. My wife and I have done the math multiple times, and we'd actually -lose- money if she went back to work. I remember childcare being rather communal in the US, where I lived, as recently as the early 90s. Now that the media and social media has turned everyone against each other, the only way out seemingly is to subsidize child care.

nly 3y ago
Well, a support network is one thing. My grandparents certainly babysat me on occasion, but me and my partner are quite far away (over an hours drive) away from any close family. Naturally my parents are also a lot older than my grandparents were as well, so it would be less fair on them. I really don't think the phenomenon of people having fewer kids or having kids later is a mystery!
- silisili 3y ago
  When I was growing up in the 80s, working class neighborhood, most wives had a part time job. Whoever was off that day would watch the kids. I remember sitting in random houses with 7 or so other kids, eating mac n cheese or bologna sandwiches, waiting for our moms to come pick us up after work. As an adult with my own kid now, it would seem such an idea is a pipe dream.
  - nly 3y ago
    Yeah, the decline in neighbourlyness would be an even more interesting phenomenon to study. My person hunch is back in the day there was a more "we're all in the same boat" feeling at the street level, where everyone had similar socioeconomic backgrounds whereas now that's not true at all. In the past, in the UK, everyone living in a road may have had the same landlord (the local council) but now you can have multi-millionaire with a £50K car living next door to someone in an identical house who is renting privately, on housing benefit, taking the bus to their minimum wage job, and struggling to feed their kids. People are much more willing to give and receive help from their "peers"
    - trealira 3y ago
      I don't think that's the only factor. I think it's also just culture. I grew up on a street (in the US) where many of my neighbors did have the same landlord as my family, but none of us spoke to each other; they were basically strangers like any other. I was born in 2003, so this is more recent than the 1980s.
ehnto 3y ago
Genuine question, is it possible childcare facilities are being extortionate, or is it generally a low margin industry? There are a lot of costs increasing that exceed inflation and frankly, exceed fair value exchange, but many of us are caught between a rock and a hard place. Rent is a great example, cars are another. These things aren't true universally, and it seems other countries are able to provide higher quality of life and cheaper services. Are we just being fleeced, are companies expecting more than their fair share?
- silisili 3y ago
  See other comment I'd made here. In my lifetime, 'daycare' on the whole has went from a favor or job for some teenager, to a viable profession. Today, strict regulations and cost of compliance and well, wages to pay the employees contribute to the exorbitant costs.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
    It utterly absurd that childcare has become a certified industry. If any reasonable person were to take a look at the fossil record, they’d immediately be struck by the dearth certificate carrying mammals. Nay! Childcare qualifications are the trophy of evolutionary maladaption.
  - FeloniousHam 3y ago
    NPR had a short piece on the "broken market" aspect: https://www.npr.org/2023/07/06/1186154271/why-parents-daycare-owners-and-daycare-workers-are-trapped-in-a-broken-market https://www.npr.org/2023/07/06/1186154271/why-parents-daycar...