4 ms·

Is it perhaps the argument between the Molinists and the Thomists around the issue of predestination?

bombcar 3y ago
That sounds like it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregatio_de_Auxiliis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregatio_de_Auxiliis
EdwardDiego 3y ago
Predestination in the hands of the Calvinists became one of the worst Christian doctrines I've seen, especially in conjunction with the perseverance of the the saints. A system of thought that made it easy dismiss people who disagree with you as going straight to hell and unworthy of consideration, and turned rather nasty in South Africa.
- vintermann 3y ago
  There's a good and very biblical way of resolving esoteric disputes over theology, and that is to ask what fruit the tree has brought forth. Maybe the pope could call a competition, "OK, fifty years from now we're going to see which of you has brought most good into the world, and settle this pointless dispute once and for all!"
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    "Ye shall know them by their fruits" is mostly advice against false prophets. These orders aren't led by false prophets, they're simply disputing minutia where it is determined that neither side is wrong, but perhaps has a different POV or formulation. They're not preaching a false gospel. Furthermore, knowing someone by their fruits is not necessarily straightforward. There are good fruits (and bad) that can be hidden, unseen, or slow to manifest. We won't rightly know who has "done the most good" until the world ends. At any rate, I believe that 1 Cor 1:10-17 is most applicable here. Can you see those religious orders saying "I follow Dominic!" and "I follow Francis!" I think that modern social communications has magnified and exacerbated the issues of esoteric theological dispute. These things are easily placed in the public square, where they do not belong. These disputes are mostly good for giving topics for Master's Theses when these proto-priests finish their seminary education. Rank-and-file Christians do not need to concern ourselves with thinking about Molinism, or whether the Orthodox accept the Immaculate Conception, or how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin.
    - EdwardDiego 3y ago
      > how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin. According to the Good (Omens) book, one, because he's the only angel who knows how to dance, but he only knows the Gavotte.
  - EdwardDiego 3y ago
    I am very much in agreement about knowing them by their fruits.

That sounds like it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregatio_de_Auxiliis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregatio_de_Auxiliis

EdwardDiego 3y ago

Predestination in the hands of the Calvinists became one of the worst Christian doctrines I've seen, especially in conjunction with the perseverance of the the saints. A system of thought that made it easy dismiss people who disagree with you as going straight to hell and unworthy of consideration, and turned rather nasty in South Africa.

vintermann 3y ago
There's a good and very biblical way of resolving esoteric disputes over theology, and that is to ask what fruit the tree has brought forth. Maybe the pope could call a competition, "OK, fifty years from now we're going to see which of you has brought most good into the world, and settle this pointless dispute once and for all!"
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  "Ye shall know them by their fruits" is mostly advice against false prophets. These orders aren't led by false prophets, they're simply disputing minutia where it is determined that neither side is wrong, but perhaps has a different POV or formulation. They're not preaching a false gospel. Furthermore, knowing someone by their fruits is not necessarily straightforward. There are good fruits (and bad) that can be hidden, unseen, or slow to manifest. We won't rightly know who has "done the most good" until the world ends. At any rate, I believe that 1 Cor 1:10-17 is most applicable here. Can you see those religious orders saying "I follow Dominic!" and "I follow Francis!" I think that modern social communications has magnified and exacerbated the issues of esoteric theological dispute. These things are easily placed in the public square, where they do not belong. These disputes are mostly good for giving topics for Master's Theses when these proto-priests finish their seminary education. Rank-and-file Christians do not need to concern ourselves with thinking about Molinism, or whether the Orthodox accept the Immaculate Conception, or how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin.
  - EdwardDiego 3y ago
    > how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin. According to the Good (Omens) book, one, because he's the only angel who knows how to dance, but he only knows the Gavotte.
- EdwardDiego 3y ago
  I am very much in agreement about knowing them by their fruits.