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From the perspective of a single-car, mid to late-mid adopter, EVs right now are a commuter car for homeowners in urban areas. The problem is that they are unsu

From the perspective of a single-car, mid to late-mid adopter, EVs right now are a commuter car for homeowners in urban areas. The problem is that they are unsuitable for anyone who: a) rents b) does not have off-street parking c) is not doing city driving d) wants only one car and occasionally drives long distances e) drives medium distances but might get stuck in traffic in winter f) lives somewhere with cold winters g) wants only one car and occasionally drives to remote locations, such as national parks Basically, the recharging situation is just not tenable for an EV to replace a regular car. Waiting thirty minutes to recharge adds up on a long trip, plus there's the uncertainty of how long the wait will actually be, if the charging station is not as fast as advertised. Until these use cases get fixed, EVs are strictly inferior to a regular car. Yes, one could rent a car for some of the infrequent use case, but since a regular car handles them fine, the EV is a less compelling option

_hypx 3y ago
Agreed. Like I said elsewhere, we have conflated EVs with the BEV. We are demanding a one-size-fits-all, even when its impossible or too expensive. This is doomed to failure and there must be more flexibility.
kevin42 3y ago
I disagree with c, e, and f. I commute 100 miles each way several days a week. I just charge my Model 3 to 100% the night before. I've done this on very cold days in single digit (f) temperatures and literal blizzards. Yes the cold hurts range, but it's enough margin that I rarely worry about it. Some days when I'm running around I'll park at a parking garage for a few hours plugged in to a level 2 charger and it's all topped off.
- FloatArtifact 3y ago
  Battery loss is quite dependent on the EV and not everybody can afford 58,630 for a model y.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Model Y is about $45k after sales tax and federal tax credit. Roughly the price of the average new car ($48k), with a much lower total cost of ownership. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/08/tesla-touts-tax-credits-price-cuts/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/08/tesla-touts-tax-credits...
    - vba616 3y ago
      I can get a legit 55 mpg from my non-plug-in hybrid, and gas is nearly $4 where I am, so that's 7.3 cents / mile. The Model Y is said to go 3.8-3.9 miles / kWh and would've cost something like $22,000 more (both new, mine was discounted in late 2020). Sources for Model Y efficiency: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons... Gas is near $4 where I live, so a mile is about 7.3 cents. A kWh for me costs 19.6 cents - off my most recent electric bill, not including the price of basic service to be a fair comparison. 19.6 cents/kWh divided by 3.85 mi/kWh is 5.1 cents per mile. So the obvious savings is around 2.2 cents a mile. $22,000 divided by 2.2 cents is a nice round million miles. I swear I didn't rig this to come out to exactly 1 million... But the other thing is that I only drive my hybrid about 8,000 miles a year. That's why I'm a good candidate for an EV in theory, since I wouldn't be relying on public chargers. A million miles divided by 8,000, though, is 125 years. Another perspective is that an EV that gets < 2.7 miles per kWh would likely be more expensive to "fill up" than my gas-powered car. There are EVs like that on the market! Apparently they are mainly BMW, Mercedes, or Audi models, so admittedly Teslas (and the Nissan Leaf) seem to be better. You could argue TCO, but how much do you think maintenance on a new Honda or Toyota hybrid costs? A Tesla could need a million times less, but a million times less than an insignificant amount still only saves an insignificant amount. And you start tens of thousands in the hole.
alphanumeric0 3y ago
I've got a Kona EV subscription from Hyundai. I just took a trip to Crater Lake and was able to charge every night I was there. At least one person had brought their extension cable and was charging via their cabin's electrical outlet.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Tesla is currently selling more cars than Toyota in California, the world’s fifth largest economy. The value prop may not be compelling to individuals here, but every unit is being sold and demand is high. Ignore online forums, look at the market, where people vote with dollars instead of internet points.
pornel 3y ago
I don’t have parking at home, and it’s not a problem for me. It’s not an inherent EV problem, just some places are behind on infrastructure. BEVs need to be charged about once a week of city driving. I can charge at a supermarket while I’m shopping. I also have charger near a local park and cafe, so if I really have charge more that’s a 25-minute break. When going outside of the city I can just stop at any DC fast charger. EU has a decent network of 300kW chargers. eGMP cars need 20min charging per 3h of driving. That’s good enough for road trips.

_hypx 3y ago

Agreed. Like I said elsewhere, we have conflated EVs with the BEV. We are demanding a one-size-fits-all, even when its impossible or too expensive. This is doomed to failure and there must be more flexibility.

kevin42 3y ago

I disagree with c, e, and f. I commute 100 miles each way several days a week. I just charge my Model 3 to 100% the night before. I've done this on very cold days in single digit (f) temperatures and literal blizzards. Yes the cold hurts range, but it's enough margin that I rarely worry about it. Some days when I'm running around I'll park at a parking garage for a few hours plugged in to a level 2 charger and it's all topped off.

FloatArtifact 3y ago
Battery loss is quite dependent on the EV and not everybody can afford 58,630 for a model y.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Model Y is about $45k after sales tax and federal tax credit. Roughly the price of the average new car ($48k), with a much lower total cost of ownership. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/08/tesla-touts-tax-credits-price-cuts/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/08/tesla-touts-tax-credits...
  - vba616 3y ago
    I can get a legit 55 mpg from my non-plug-in hybrid, and gas is nearly $4 where I am, so that's 7.3 cents / mile. The Model Y is said to go 3.8-3.9 miles / kWh and would've cost something like $22,000 more (both new, mine was discounted in late 2020). Sources for Model Y efficiency: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons... Gas is near $4 where I live, so a mile is about 7.3 cents. A kWh for me costs 19.6 cents - off my most recent electric bill, not including the price of basic service to be a fair comparison. 19.6 cents/kWh divided by 3.85 mi/kWh is 5.1 cents per mile. So the obvious savings is around 2.2 cents a mile. $22,000 divided by 2.2 cents is a nice round million miles. I swear I didn't rig this to come out to exactly 1 million... But the other thing is that I only drive my hybrid about 8,000 miles a year. That's why I'm a good candidate for an EV in theory, since I wouldn't be relying on public chargers. A million miles divided by 8,000, though, is 125 years. Another perspective is that an EV that gets < 2.7 miles per kWh would likely be more expensive to "fill up" than my gas-powered car. There are EVs like that on the market! Apparently they are mainly BMW, Mercedes, or Audi models, so admittedly Teslas (and the Nissan Leaf) seem to be better. You could argue TCO, but how much do you think maintenance on a new Honda or Toyota hybrid costs? A Tesla could need a million times less, but a million times less than an insignificant amount still only saves an insignificant amount. And you start tens of thousands in the hole.

alphanumeric0 3y ago

I've got a Kona EV subscription from Hyundai. I just took a trip to Crater Lake and was able to charge every night I was there. At least one person had brought their extension cable and was charging via their cabin's electrical outlet.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Tesla is currently selling more cars than Toyota in California, the world’s fifth largest economy. The value prop may not be compelling to individuals here, but every unit is being sold and demand is high. Ignore online forums, look at the market, where people vote with dollars instead of internet points.

pornel 3y ago

I don’t have parking at home, and it’s not a problem for me. It’s not an inherent EV problem, just some places are behind on infrastructure. BEVs need to be charged about once a week of city driving. I can charge at a supermarket while I’m shopping. I also have charger near a local park and cafe, so if I really have charge more that’s a 25-minute break. When going outside of the city I can just stop at any DC fast charger. EU has a decent network of 300kW chargers. eGMP cars need 20min charging per 3h of driving. That’s good enough for road trips.