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>Many (most?) teenage mothers intend to be teenage mothers [citation fucking needed]. I'd be highly surprised if that was indeed the case.

anon291 3y ago
My mom was a teacher in a poor neighborhood. The way girls in my neighborhood felt and the way girls in my mom's school felt were completely at odds. The girls at my mom's school often wanted to be mothers and would tell my mom that. Whereas the girls in my neighborhood had their eyes set on careers, later marriage, etc. I went to school somewhat near my mom's station and I knew several girls in classmate's families who also wanted to be mothers. This is heavily cultural, and some cultures strongly emphasize family life (especially mothers), and these often are the ones in which you'll find a lot of teenage mothers. In my mom's case, her school was heavily hispanic. Hispanic culture deifies mothers and many teenage / pre-teen girls saw becoming a mother as a way to escape the drudgeries of life and be turned into 'mother'. Of course, they didn't always think about the other sides of it. Now, I realize this study is in Australia, but Hispanic culture is hardly unique in this area. Many cultures greatly celebrate mothers and motherhood and don't have the same cultural prohibition on teenage parenthood / emphasis on post-high-school education. And before everyone gets all mad and cries racist, we are also of Latin stock. EDIT: You seem very surprised that any girl may want a baby as a teenager, but I assure you they exist. Unfortunately, I cannot find direct research on the topic. However, I did find this documentary tracing women who wanted to have babies as teenagers and were happy about it: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/10/were-glad-we-chose-to-be-mothers-in-our-teens https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/10/were-gl... . Hopefully this at least proves that such people exist. More sources: https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/planned-teenage-pregnancy-views-and-experiences-young-people-poor-and-disadvantaged https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/planned-teenage-pregnancy-view... ^ This one in particular substantiates my hypothesis as "Many mothers spoke of their love of babies, often heightened by experience caring for other children."
- JadeNB 3y ago
  > You seem very surprised that any girl may want a baby as a teenager, but I assure you they exist. I think there is a big difference between being surprised, and doubtful, that many/most teenage mothers want to be mothers—a position I and andrepd hold—and being surprised or doubtful that any teenage mother wants to be one—a position neither I, nor, I suspect, andrepd holds.
- mattdeboard 3y ago
  What surprises me is you’re so bold about painting teenage girls with an extremely broad brush in your top-level comment, then go on to detail all the ethnic, cultural and socioeconomic complexities that make generalization irresponsible. It’s like, you keenly observe the complex tapestry of human existence in this comment, but say “many (most?)” teen moms are planning their pregnancies in your original comment. Why the disconnect?
  - anon291 3y ago
    Because many teenage mothers are planning their pregnancies. Just because a girl comes from a poor background and is of a particular ethnicity doesn't take them out of the category of 'girls'. Do you think a white girl is more categorically a girl than a hispanic one?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
karencarits 3y ago
WHO: Position paper on mainstreaming adolescent pregnancy in efforts to make pregnancy safer > Recent data confirm that a wide variation in planning status exists across developing countries. Results from 37 recent DHS surveys show a median of about 75% of pregnancies to adolescents are planned (the data are not disaggregated by marital status). However, the percentage of pregnancies to adolescents that are planned varies widely, from a low of 42% in Colombia to a high of 93% in Egypt (Figure 23). Important regional variation also occurs (Figure 24), with a median of only about half of pregnancies planned in Latin America and the Caribbean versus 69% in sub-Saharan Africa, and between 80% and 90% in North Africa/West Asia/Europe and South and Southeast Asia. > No clear pattern emerges when comparing planning status of pregnancy in adolescents versus older women. In about half of countries of 37 countries with a recent DHS, adolescents under 20 have higher rates of planned pregnancies compared with women 20-24 years old (Figure 25). > Data from recent studies bolster findings from previous reviews that adolescents in developed countries have relatively high rates of unplanned pregnancies compared to their counterparts in developing countries. In the U.S. a 2002 national survey found that only 21.6% of births to women under 20 years older were planned, compared to 55.8% of births to women ages 20-24 (Chandra et al. 2005).
- mattdeboard 3y ago
  tl;dr in context of the top-level comment: 80% of births to women under the age of 20 in the U.S. are unplanned. So nothing even close to “most.”
  - giantg2 3y ago
    To be fair, "most?" was a question. I would think 20% qualifies as "many", depending on how one wants to define it.
    - mattdeboard 3y ago
      It is grammatically a question, correct. It is also a rhetorical device the author chose to use to make a suggestion for the reader to read.
giantg2 3y ago
I mean, it's pretty much by definition, right? Many of the ones that don't want to be mothers aren't because they had the option of an abortion or used effective contraception (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1400506 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1400506). Of course the pregnancy and birth rates have both been almost halved due to many factors including contraception and abstaining (cultural change), but there are still a sizable percentage (20ish%) that would keep the baby even with free options. This study show one of three themes being ignorance, including some mothers thinking that having a child will strengthen their relationship with the father. So there is a sizable portion that chose to have a child, enough so that they are one of the main 3 themes in the results. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866436/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866436/
- JadeNB 3y ago
  > I mean, it's pretty much by definition, right? The ones that don't want to be mothers aren't because they had the option of an abortion or used effective contraception. I doubt that not wanting to be a mother automatically means that you have the knowledge, and/or a safe way, to prevent or terminate a pregnancy.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Sure, some other data would help the implications like the pregnancy and birthrates halving over the past few decades, the ease of access and options for birth control, etc. Someone else posted a link from WHO that has direct data on the percent that is planned pregnancy. Probably best to go with that.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
Citation: The girls I grew up around.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
Anecdotal but I personally went to a school that transferred pregnant girls and mothers from other schools and my experience is that it is very common. There is a biological drive to have children, you'd expect that drive to begin when fertility begins in some not insignificant portion of the female population, and where hormones are concerned often reason goes out the window.

anon291 3y ago

My mom was a teacher in a poor neighborhood. The way girls in my neighborhood felt and the way girls in my mom's school felt were completely at odds. The girls at my mom's school often wanted to be mothers and would tell my mom that. Whereas the girls in my neighborhood had their eyes set on careers, later marriage, etc. I went to school somewhat near my mom's station and I knew several girls in classmate's families who also wanted to be mothers. This is heavily cultural, and some cultures strongly emphasize family life (especially mothers), and these often are the ones in which you'll find a lot of teenage mothers. In my mom's case, her school was heavily hispanic. Hispanic culture deifies mothers and many teenage / pre-teen girls saw becoming a mother as a way to escape the drudgeries of life and be turned into 'mother'. Of course, they didn't always think about the other sides of it. Now, I realize this study is in Australia, but Hispanic culture is hardly unique in this area. Many cultures greatly celebrate mothers and motherhood and don't have the same cultural prohibition on teenage parenthood / emphasis on post-high-school education. And before everyone gets all mad and cries racist, we are also of Latin stock. EDIT: You seem very surprised that any girl may want a baby as a teenager, but I assure you they exist. Unfortunately, I cannot find direct research on the topic. However, I did find this documentary tracing women who wanted to have babies as teenagers and were happy about it: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/10/were-glad-we-chose-to-be-mothers-in-our-teens https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/10/were-gl... . Hopefully this at least proves that such people exist. More sources: https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/planned-teenage-pregnancy-views-and-experiences-young-people-poor-and-disadvantaged https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/planned-teenage-pregnancy-view... ^ This one in particular substantiates my hypothesis as "Many mothers spoke of their love of babies, often heightened by experience caring for other children."

JadeNB 3y ago
> You seem very surprised that any girl may want a baby as a teenager, but I assure you they exist. I think there is a big difference between being surprised, and doubtful, that many/most teenage mothers want to be mothers—a position I and andrepd hold—and being surprised or doubtful that any teenage mother wants to be one—a position neither I, nor, I suspect, andrepd holds.
mattdeboard 3y ago
What surprises me is you’re so bold about painting teenage girls with an extremely broad brush in your top-level comment, then go on to detail all the ethnic, cultural and socioeconomic complexities that make generalization irresponsible. It’s like, you keenly observe the complex tapestry of human existence in this comment, but say “many (most?)” teen moms are planning their pregnancies in your original comment. Why the disconnect?
- anon291 3y ago
  Because many teenage mothers are planning their pregnancies. Just because a girl comes from a poor background and is of a particular ethnicity doesn't take them out of the category of 'girls'. Do you think a white girl is more categorically a girl than a hispanic one?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

karencarits 3y ago

WHO: Position paper on mainstreaming adolescent pregnancy in efforts to make pregnancy safer > Recent data confirm that a wide variation in planning status exists across developing countries. Results from 37 recent DHS surveys show a median of about 75% of pregnancies to adolescents are planned (the data are not disaggregated by marital status). However, the percentage of pregnancies to adolescents that are planned varies widely, from a low of 42% in Colombia to a high of 93% in Egypt (Figure 23). Important regional variation also occurs (Figure 24), with a median of only about half of pregnancies planned in Latin America and the Caribbean versus 69% in sub-Saharan Africa, and between 80% and 90% in North Africa/West Asia/Europe and South and Southeast Asia. > No clear pattern emerges when comparing planning status of pregnancy in adolescents versus older women. In about half of countries of 37 countries with a recent DHS, adolescents under 20 have higher rates of planned pregnancies compared with women 20-24 years old (Figure 25). > Data from recent studies bolster findings from previous reviews that adolescents in developed countries have relatively high rates of unplanned pregnancies compared to their counterparts in developing countries. In the U.S. a 2002 national survey found that only 21.6% of births to women under 20 years older were planned, compared to 55.8% of births to women ages 20-24 (Chandra et al. 2005).

mattdeboard 3y ago
tl;dr in context of the top-level comment: 80% of births to women under the age of 20 in the U.S. are unplanned. So nothing even close to “most.”
- giantg2 3y ago
  To be fair, "most?" was a question. I would think 20% qualifies as "many", depending on how one wants to define it.
  - mattdeboard 3y ago
    It is grammatically a question, correct. It is also a rhetorical device the author chose to use to make a suggestion for the reader to read.

giantg2 3y ago

I mean, it's pretty much by definition, right? Many of the ones that don't want to be mothers aren't because they had the option of an abortion or used effective contraception (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1400506 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1400506). Of course the pregnancy and birth rates have both been almost halved due to many factors including contraception and abstaining (cultural change), but there are still a sizable percentage (20ish%) that would keep the baby even with free options. This study show one of three themes being ignorance, including some mothers thinking that having a child will strengthen their relationship with the father. So there is a sizable portion that chose to have a child, enough so that they are one of the main 3 themes in the results. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866436/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866436/

JadeNB 3y ago
> I mean, it's pretty much by definition, right? The ones that don't want to be mothers aren't because they had the option of an abortion or used effective contraception. I doubt that not wanting to be a mother automatically means that you have the knowledge, and/or a safe way, to prevent or terminate a pregnancy.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Sure, some other data would help the implications like the pregnancy and birthrates halving over the past few decades, the ease of access and options for birth control, etc. Someone else posted a link from WHO that has direct data on the percent that is planned pregnancy. Probably best to go with that.

xboxnolifes 3y ago

Citation: The girls I grew up around.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

Anecdotal but I personally went to a school that transferred pregnant girls and mothers from other schools and my experience is that it is very common. There is a biological drive to have children, you'd expect that drive to begin when fertility begins in some not insignificant portion of the female population, and where hormones are concerned often reason goes out the window.