3 ms·

I lived near Lahaina for a year. Where the fires are going on now. That part of the island is just a natural desert because it is on the leeward side of the pre

I lived near Lahaina for a year. Where the fires are going on now. That part of the island is just a natural desert because it is on the leeward side of the prevailing winds. It's a natural tinder box. The land directly adjacent to Lahaina is mostly dry grass at this time of the year. It has not been cleared. The actual farms are much greener than what is naturally there. > But it was apparent that large swaths of native vegetation were cleared for colonization Complete nonsense. Native Hawaiians were farming that land for centuries before white people showed up. People will visit Maui then make up a bunch of stuff about it without doing any actual research. Monkeypod isn't even native to Hawaii.

duhaime 3y ago
Monkeypods are in fact considered invasive by some, though they are one of the more forgivable invasive species: https://plantpono.org/pono-plants/samanea-saman/ https://plantpono.org/pono-plants/samanea-saman/
hijp 3y ago
He's not wrong. You can't compare the ahupua'a system with the large scale industrial monoculture plantations of the 1800s-and onward. https://imgur.com/OCirGip https://imgur.com/OCirGip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_plantations_in_Hawaii#Environmental_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_plantations_in_Hawaii#En...
- hparadiz 3y ago
  The area on fire is a magnitude larger than all the land the sugar plantations ever took up. There was never any development of that land. Not today. Not ever. It's been designated a natural preserve much like 99.9% of all the jungle areas.
  - hijp 3y ago
    That's completely inaccurate. 2,000 acres burned in the maui fire. In contrast, Alexander and Baldwin sold 41,000 acres of sugar plantation land in 2018. Here's a map of the Maui fires (red dots) overlayed on sugar lands. https://imgur.com/CysWreb https://imgur.com/CysWreb, https://health.hawaii.gov/epo/egis/sugarcane/ https://health.hawaii.gov/epo/egis/sugarcane/ From NYT: “The fire problem,” he added, “is mostly attributable to the vast extents of nonnative grasslands left unmanaged by large landowners.” That shift away from plantations allowed tropical grasslands to grow untended, which built up the fuels needed for big wildfires to spread. Mr. Trauernicht, a specialist in wildland fire science and management at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, refers to a “grass-fire” cycle. This happens when the heavy rains that fall across the islands cause the grasses to grow. Then the dry season arrives, and the grasses burn. “The biomass out there is off the charts,” Mr. Trauernicht said in a 2021 interview. There are ways that the authorities can limit this destructive cycle, he said. They include building firebreaks, introducing vegetation that is more resistant to fire and allowing livestock to keep grasses at a manageable level. For years, Mr. Trauernicht and other experts have been calling for such moves to mitigate Hawaii’s wildfire risks." And: "I talked to Clay Trauernicht, one of Hawaii’s top wildfire experts. His assessment: The plantations of sugarcane and pineapple that dominated the state's economy during much of the 19th and 20th centuries are mostly gone. Their disappearance, and Hawaii's heavy rains, allowed tropical grasslands to grow rapidly, replacing them. But then the dry season comes, and the grasses burn, causing destruction like we’re seeing on Maui.
    - hparadiz 3y ago
      What was there before the sugar plantations? I used to live on Maui. I'm having a hard time imagining a forest there before but maybe there was. I'm curious and you seem to know a lot about it.

duhaime 3y ago

Monkeypods are in fact considered invasive by some, though they are one of the more forgivable invasive species: https://plantpono.org/pono-plants/samanea-saman/ https://plantpono.org/pono-plants/samanea-saman/

hijp 3y ago

He's not wrong. You can't compare the ahupua'a system with the large scale industrial monoculture plantations of the 1800s-and onward. https://imgur.com/OCirGip https://imgur.com/OCirGip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_plantations_in_Hawaii#Environmental_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_plantations_in_Hawaii#En...

hparadiz 3y ago
The area on fire is a magnitude larger than all the land the sugar plantations ever took up. There was never any development of that land. Not today. Not ever. It's been designated a natural preserve much like 99.9% of all the jungle areas.
- hijp 3y ago
  That's completely inaccurate. 2,000 acres burned in the maui fire. In contrast, Alexander and Baldwin sold 41,000 acres of sugar plantation land in 2018. Here's a map of the Maui fires (red dots) overlayed on sugar lands. https://imgur.com/CysWreb https://imgur.com/CysWreb, https://health.hawaii.gov/epo/egis/sugarcane/ https://health.hawaii.gov/epo/egis/sugarcane/ From NYT: “The fire problem,” he added, “is mostly attributable to the vast extents of nonnative grasslands left unmanaged by large landowners.” That shift away from plantations allowed tropical grasslands to grow untended, which built up the fuels needed for big wildfires to spread. Mr. Trauernicht, a specialist in wildland fire science and management at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, refers to a “grass-fire” cycle. This happens when the heavy rains that fall across the islands cause the grasses to grow. Then the dry season arrives, and the grasses burn. “The biomass out there is off the charts,” Mr. Trauernicht said in a 2021 interview. There are ways that the authorities can limit this destructive cycle, he said. They include building firebreaks, introducing vegetation that is more resistant to fire and allowing livestock to keep grasses at a manageable level. For years, Mr. Trauernicht and other experts have been calling for such moves to mitigate Hawaii’s wildfire risks." And: "I talked to Clay Trauernicht, one of Hawaii’s top wildfire experts. His assessment: The plantations of sugarcane and pineapple that dominated the state's economy during much of the 19th and 20th centuries are mostly gone. Their disappearance, and Hawaii's heavy rains, allowed tropical grasslands to grow rapidly, replacing them. But then the dry season comes, and the grasses burn, causing destruction like we’re seeing on Maui.
  - hparadiz 3y ago
    What was there before the sugar plantations? I used to live on Maui. I'm having a hard time imagining a forest there before but maybe there was. I'm curious and you seem to know a lot about it.