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Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ? That's like saying all junior-level employees MUST carry a book on top of their h

by cruano 3y ago

Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ? That's like saying all junior-level employees MUST carry a book on top of their heads all the time, and only C-Level executives get to skip that. If you give someone flexibility, you are not taking anything away from other people, so not giving it is only an unnecessary punishment for junior level employees.

bko 3y ago
You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. After you've been there a while, learned more and are more effective at your job, you're more likely to get the benefit of the doubt but even that has limits. Why are we pretending like this is all weird? New or junior employees need a lot of handholding to ramp up and it's inappropriate that they just get the same consideration when compared to someone that's been there longer than the analyst has been alive. Have you guys ever worked a normal job before?
- TuringNYC 3y ago
  >> You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. I've had co-workers in these situations for a long time. In theory there is no difference. But then... - suddenly you can barely hear someone on a conference call because they are on a 4G-tether on a beach, - or because there are tons of bar sounds in the background on a call - or you have a production issue but cant get the person to screen-share because they are on low-bandwidth I even had individuals who would block their entire calendar on WFH days and only take meetings on in-office days. The problem is with those who abuse privileges, not with those who are honest.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Blocking off the day makes sense because you want get work done. Meetings can wait until I'm at the office because I'm too distracted to get real work done in my flex-desk. Who cares if employee works at the beach? You need to provide value not appearance of value.
    - TuringNYC 3y ago
      >> Blocking off the day makes sense because you want get work done. I'm sure there are cases there it doesnt matter, but I was mentioning cases where teams need to work with each other and are paid to work with each other. I specifically mentioned Production Support. How can production support meetings "wait until they are back at the office?" From my standpoint, it doesnt matter where they are (home or office) but if they have no connectivity and cannot jump into troubleshooting meetings during business hours, i'm not sure how this works for numerous situations. Through my career, i've been on the hot-seat as live applications have gone down. Imagine a DB is down or a pipeline is broken, and my DBA co-worker says "sure, lets take it up on Monday when I'm back". Note, I have no admin rights to the DB. I had a k8s cluster run out of disk space. I had no admin rights to fix this. If the k8s admin decided he could take the meeting a day or days later, it would be a total disaster.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. We're assuming you even read the article. It clearly says "how the underling walked up at a restaurant, introduced himself and pointed to associates with him" i.e. it was more than 1 person. Maybe they are doing face-to-face training? Are you saying that's ineffective? > New or junior employees need a lot of handholding to ramp up That's exactly what's happening. Why are you assuming it's not?
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Exactly. What if it was a "team building lunch" or they were all out meeting a client or they are all remote together in a summer share? And of the CEO - was he meeting a client, the board, or simply out to lunch by himself or with family/friends/etc. The article is silent on this topic.
TuringNYC 3y ago
>> Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ? Many of these things are about rite of passage, and people who have gone thru the rites want others to not skip. It can also be about a power-dynamic, where flexibility isnt given because imposed inflexibility is a power lever.
- Izkata 3y ago
  It can turn into that, but on the flipside it's normal to get more privileges over time, either as a reward (raises, time off) or once you've shown you won't abuse it (WFH/flexibility).

by cruano 3y ago

bko 3y ago

You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. After you've been there a while, learned more and are more effective at your job, you're more likely to get the benefit of the doubt but even that has limits. Why are we pretending like this is all weird? New or junior employees need a lot of handholding to ramp up and it's inappropriate that they just get the same consideration when compared to someone that's been there longer than the analyst has been alive. Have you guys ever worked a normal job before?

TuringNYC 3y ago
>> You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. I've had co-workers in these situations for a long time. In theory there is no difference. But then... - suddenly you can barely hear someone on a conference call because they are on a 4G-tether on a beach, - or because there are tons of bar sounds in the background on a call - or you have a production issue but cant get the person to screen-share because they are on low-bandwidth I even had individuals who would block their entire calendar on WFH days and only take meetings on in-office days. The problem is with those who abuse privileges, not with those who are honest.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Blocking off the day makes sense because you want get work done. Meetings can wait until I'm at the office because I'm too distracted to get real work done in my flex-desk. Who cares if employee works at the beach? You need to provide value not appearance of value.
  - TuringNYC 3y ago
    >> Blocking off the day makes sense because you want get work done. I'm sure there are cases there it doesnt matter, but I was mentioning cases where teams need to work with each other and are paid to work with each other. I specifically mentioned Production Support. How can production support meetings "wait until they are back at the office?" From my standpoint, it doesnt matter where they are (home or office) but if they have no connectivity and cannot jump into troubleshooting meetings during business hours, i'm not sure how this works for numerous situations. Through my career, i've been on the hot-seat as live applications have gone down. Imagine a DB is down or a pipeline is broken, and my DBA co-worker says "sure, lets take it up on Monday when I'm back". Note, I have no admin rights to the DB. I had a k8s cluster run out of disk space. I had no admin rights to fix this. If the k8s admin decided he could take the meeting a day or days later, it would be a total disaster.
re-thc 3y ago
> You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. We're assuming you even read the article. It clearly says "how the underling walked up at a restaurant, introduced himself and pointed to associates with him" i.e. it was more than 1 person. Maybe they are doing face-to-face training? Are you saying that's ineffective? > New or junior employees need a lot of handholding to ramp up That's exactly what's happening. Why are you assuming it's not?
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Exactly. What if it was a "team building lunch" or they were all out meeting a client or they are all remote together in a summer share? And of the CEO - was he meeting a client, the board, or simply out to lunch by himself or with family/friends/etc. The article is silent on this topic.

TuringNYC 3y ago

>> Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ? Many of these things are about rite of passage, and people who have gone thru the rites want others to not skip. It can also be about a power-dynamic, where flexibility isnt given because imposed inflexibility is a power lever.

Izkata 3y ago
It can turn into that, but on the flipside it's normal to get more privileges over time, either as a reward (raises, time off) or once you've shown you won't abuse it (WFH/flexibility).