3 ms·

The climate wrecking ball striking food supply

3 points by myshpa 3y ago

h2odragon 3y ago
Governments ordering farmers to stop farming, in the name of "climate impact mitigation," is also going to negatively impact food supply. Let's be honest here.
- myshpa 3y ago
  I just went through that article again ... I see not a single mention about "governments ordering farmers". Have I missed something?
  - sbate1987 3y ago
    [dead]
  - thebooktocome 3y ago
    It’s not related to the article, but the UK is currently restructuring its farming subsidies to, among other things, encourage sustainable farming and mitigate food security risk. Basically everyone is unhappy about it for some reason. Some sheep farmers were told to reduce their flock by 90% or so. But on the other hand, the pastures they’ve traditionally used to graze can no longer sustain such flocks (although this is controversial, it seems borne out by my reading). So if they continue to consider only profit motives, the pasture will end up dead and they’ll be out of work anyway. It’s a hard problem that ought to have been solved decades ago.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > is currently restructuring its farming subsidies to, among other things, encourage sustainable farming and mitigate food security risk ... reduce their flock by 90% or so That seems reasonable to me. The UK has experienced heavy deforestation and holds one of the highest percentages of land dedicated to animal farming, if I recall correctly. Animal ag is a very inefficient and polluting way to feed the population. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets > is currently restructuring its farming subsidies to, among other things, encourage sustainable farming and mitigate food security risk In my opinion, the best approach would be to reforest or rewild those pastures. After all, those pastures were mostly forests in the past. This protect biodiversity and wildlife, improve local microclimates, and help the country achieve its climate goals. Although grazing is sometimes promoted as a regenerative technique, scientific evidence suggests otherwise. A potential solution could involve government subsidies for afforesting those pastures, similar to what New Zealand is doing. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2212041620301546 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22120... Promotion of afforestation in New Zealand’s marginal agricultural lands through payments for environmental services "We find that even without PES, 56% of these agricultural lands present lower economic returns than forestry. When PES are considered, results suggest that, depending on the PES schemes and carbon prices, 77–100% of the low-productivity grassland areas could financially benefit from afforestation." > It’s a hard problem that ought to have been solved decades ago. I completely agree. Good to see those first early-but-late birds, though.
      - thebooktocome 3y ago
        Indeed, many of the new subsidies are to promote various kinds and scales of rewilding.
    - brutusborn 3y ago
      What’s wrong with the pastures?
  - wsc981 3y ago
    In The Netherlands the government tries to buy out farmers and they have to promise not to start a farm elsewhere in the EU.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > In The Netherlands the government tries to buy out farmers You're right, I've read about that. > they have to promise not to start a farm elsewhere They can farm elsewhere, but not in animal agriculture, right? I may be wrong, but imho they can still get into plant farming, like growing vegetables, fruits or agroforestry. It would not be very logical otherwise.
      - wsc981 3y ago
        I think the Dutch government is concerned about use of fertilizer as well (nitrogen emissions?), so they prefer farmers to just stop, is my understanding. The Dutch government set a really high bar for itself regarding reduction in nitrogen emissions (much higher than required by EU regulations) which is why farmers must go. Germany and Belgium allow for much higher nitrogen emissions, so it's not really a concern in these neighbouring countries.
        myshpa 3y ago
        There are regenerative methods of farming not dependend on animals, fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides. Syntropic, natural, veganic farming, to name just a few.
        wsc981 3y ago
        Probably. I'd guess using some fertiliser can't be bad either, maybe not overdoing it? I live in Thailand & my girlfriend got a farm. She does use fertiliser (poo from pigs, I sometimes have to carry the bags). And she avoids pesticides and herbicides, so we can eat more organic. Buying veggies and fruits at the local markets in Thailand will contain many pesticides - not great for long term health I'm sure.
    - 3y ago

3 points by myshpa 3y ago

Governments ordering farmers to stop farming, in the name of "climate impact mitigation," is also going to negatively impact food supply. Let's be honest here.

myshpa 3y ago
I just went through that article again ... I see not a single mention about "governments ordering farmers". Have I missed something?
- sbate1987 3y ago
  [dead]
- thebooktocome 3y ago
  It’s not related to the article, but the UK is currently restructuring its farming subsidies to, among other things, encourage sustainable farming and mitigate food security risk. Basically everyone is unhappy about it for some reason. Some sheep farmers were told to reduce their flock by 90% or so. But on the other hand, the pastures they’ve traditionally used to graze can no longer sustain such flocks (although this is controversial, it seems borne out by my reading). So if they continue to consider only profit motives, the pasture will end up dead and they’ll be out of work anyway. It’s a hard problem that ought to have been solved decades ago.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > is currently restructuring its farming subsidies to, among other things, encourage sustainable farming and mitigate food security risk ... reduce their flock by 90% or so That seems reasonable to me. The UK has experienced heavy deforestation and holds one of the highest percentages of land dedicated to animal farming, if I recall correctly. Animal ag is a very inefficient and polluting way to feed the population. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets > is currently restructuring its farming subsidies to, among other things, encourage sustainable farming and mitigate food security risk In my opinion, the best approach would be to reforest or rewild those pastures. After all, those pastures were mostly forests in the past. This protect biodiversity and wildlife, improve local microclimates, and help the country achieve its climate goals. Although grazing is sometimes promoted as a regenerative technique, scientific evidence suggests otherwise. A potential solution could involve government subsidies for afforesting those pastures, similar to what New Zealand is doing. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2212041620301546 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22120... Promotion of afforestation in New Zealand’s marginal agricultural lands through payments for environmental services "We find that even without PES, 56% of these agricultural lands present lower economic returns than forestry. When PES are considered, results suggest that, depending on the PES schemes and carbon prices, 77–100% of the low-productivity grassland areas could financially benefit from afforestation." > It’s a hard problem that ought to have been solved decades ago. I completely agree. Good to see those first early-but-late birds, though.
    - thebooktocome 3y ago
      Indeed, many of the new subsidies are to promote various kinds and scales of rewilding.
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    What’s wrong with the pastures?
- wsc981 3y ago
  In The Netherlands the government tries to buy out farmers and they have to promise not to start a farm elsewhere in the EU.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > In The Netherlands the government tries to buy out farmers You're right, I've read about that. > they have to promise not to start a farm elsewhere They can farm elsewhere, but not in animal agriculture, right? I may be wrong, but imho they can still get into plant farming, like growing vegetables, fruits or agroforestry. It would not be very logical otherwise.
    - wsc981 3y ago
      I think the Dutch government is concerned about use of fertilizer as well (nitrogen emissions?), so they prefer farmers to just stop, is my understanding. The Dutch government set a really high bar for itself regarding reduction in nitrogen emissions (much higher than required by EU regulations) which is why farmers must go. Germany and Belgium allow for much higher nitrogen emissions, so it's not really a concern in these neighbouring countries.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        There are regenerative methods of farming not dependend on animals, fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides. Syntropic, natural, veganic farming, to name just a few.
        wsc981 3y ago
        Probably. I'd guess using some fertiliser can't be bad either, maybe not overdoing it? I live in Thailand & my girlfriend got a farm. She does use fertiliser (poo from pigs, I sometimes have to carry the bags). And she avoids pesticides and herbicides, so we can eat more organic. Buying veggies and fruits at the local markets in Thailand will contain many pesticides - not great for long term health I'm sure.
  - 3y ago