6 ms·

Review: Beepy a Palm-Sized Linux Hacking Playground

134 points by teleforce 3y ago

alectroem 3y ago
I deeply desire one of these that also has 4G LTE. The idea of a portable linux shell that could also make phone calls by typing in something like "call 773-202-LUNA" just sounds super appealing!
- calgoo 3y ago
  To me it’s to opposite! I’m looking for a device that does not have a baseband on it. I can always hotspot + vpn if I need access to the outside world, but no direct access to the device. Add some encrypted chat software, and got the perfect communication device.
  - pgeorgi 3y ago
    https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-wifi-only https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-wifi-only was an option but sadly they pivoted to devices with baseband only... There's https://pyra-handheld.com/ https://pyra-handheld.com/ but it's semi-existent not-quite-vaporware for about a decade already (props on the staying power of looking to get this project finished, though!)
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      Gemini also the disadvantage of horribly out of date software. Encrypted chat software is not a good combination with Android 8.1 missing years of security patches.
    - forsakenkraken 3y ago
      Planet Computers are probably going down the drain soonish after the fairly disastrous crowdfunding for the Astro phone. I know a friend who has a Gemini and he wasn't impressed either. However I am massively biased, as I paid for a Astro which I'm still waiting for several years after the kickstarter finished. To be fair, they have had pretty major issues with the ODM, but still we've only just found that out recently. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer/x/24837475#/comments https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
  - catherd 3y ago
    I make a VoIP/WiFi phone that excludes any sort of cellular radio because that's what I want as well: https://wiphone.io https://wiphone.io
- pezh0re 3y ago
  I wonder if you could build on Jeff Geerling's work: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/using-4g-lte-wireless-modems-on-raspberry-pi https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/using-4g-lte-wireless...
- AshamedCaptain 3y ago
  You know you can do that on Android with termux, right? https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux-telephony-call https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux-telephony-call
  - kragen 3y ago
    until termux gets banned from android for empowering users too much, anyway it's already banned from updating in google play
    - KetoManx64 3y ago
      Just use F-Droid or download from GitHub then. The power of Android is that you're not in a walled Google Garden and you are in control and can sideload whatever you want from wherever you want.
      - kragen 3y ago
        that's what i'm doing now, but it's probably only about 3 years away that google disables the api level that termux depends on; then you'll have to install lineageos or something in order to be able to use termux
- spicybright 3y ago
  One project I think about a lot but will probably never do is build a DIY smart phone, writing all the UI and features myself. There's people on youtube that have done this. They're basically off the shelf parts and a raspi glued together in an awkward brick of wires and electronics. I'm interested in learning how to get the hardware all working together, but also making wacky UI that deviate from normal smart phones. Too bad I'm lazy!
  - krabizzwainch 3y ago
    Ha I actually had the same thoughts about building an eReader with an eink display and everything. I actually put it together and wrote it with Python for epubs and everything. Then I realized I suck at UI stuff so it’s just sitting at like 65% complete… which is better than my average project actually!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- serf 3y ago
  the clockwork-pi uconsole is a handheld small linux device with 4g options; don't know if they are shipping yet.
  - exabyte 3y ago
    That keyboard looks incredibly hard to type with, no?
edent 3y ago
My experience with SQFMI's Watchy has been disappointing. As noted in the review - there is close to zero documentation. There is a Discord (that they rarely appear in) where people try to make sense of the random collection of buggy software - but it is a chore. I like tinkering and exploring. But I get the impression that they think their customers appreciate the level of disrespect SQFMI show them.
- uxp100 3y ago
  The out of the box experience for beepy is better, standard raspberry pi linux plus some drivers, with a script that installs them. Watchy had a supposed easy way to install watch faces that I could never ever make work, had to join the discord and use some other method that worked with only certain faces. But I think the appeal is that these little basically unsupported boards are inexpensive and do have a community that will help, hidden away on discord.
marcodiego 3y ago
> [...] if you add Android and Chrome OS into the mix, there are millions and millions of people who are using Linux on daily basis and don’t even realize it. Actually, if you consider Android, that would be around billions.
- extraduder_ire 3y ago
  I get "Billions of devices run java." vibes from this, even if it's not a comparable statement. Would be cool to have a linux shell running in a smartcard though.
guessbest 3y ago
I got a few second hand, vintage android and windows mobile devices with those pop out keyboards and getting used to the physical keyboard was more difficult than I remember. For instance everytime I pushed the keyboard with my thumb the device moved ever so slightly. It was difficult to press the keyboard and not slightly shift the screen
captn3m0 3y ago
I’d love if the old Symbian QWERTY phones made a comeback. I had a cheap Nokia X2-01 (https://m.gsmarena.com/nokia_x2_01-3610.php https://m.gsmarena.com/nokia_x2_01-3610.php) running S40, and it did XMPP, E-mail pretty fine. Just make those with a slightly more powerful/modern SoC and let me run Pidgin.
- 1d22a 3y ago
  I came across the Unihertz Titan Pocket [1] yesterday which might interest you. Small, android QWERTY phone which looks pretty cool, depending on your use-case. [1] https://www.unihertz.com/products/titan-pocket https://www.unihertz.com/products/titan-pocket
  - rusk 3y ago
    I had the unihertz atom for a while and it was a terrible device with poor software and support. You would think, given it’s based on android you could reflash with something useful but no, they don’t provide you the necessary drivers and stuff to do this. Avoid these chancers.
johnea 3y ago
> if you add Android and Chrome OS into the mix, there are millions and millions of people who are using Linux on daily basis and don’t even realize it. This is even more true than the article states. The largest demographic of linux users is certainly "people who own a television". Almost all modern TVs run linux...
- kragen 3y ago
  i didn't realize this, but it makes sense probably the number of tvs is much smaller than the number of android phones though; tvs are a luxury good while android phones have become a basic necessity
uxp100 3y ago
I’ve been enjoying toying around with my beepy, but the display is pretty miserable. I’d say you almost need outdoor light to enjoy it. Lights on inside it’s fine, usable, but lots of tilting to get the best angle. And I’d love just a little larger size, maybe another row of text and some more columns. When the device was announced some naysayer here on HN said, hey, that display is lame and the raspberry pi is a bad choice for battery applications, mcus with better options for deep sleep could make this a device with a battery life measured in days, not hours. And despite calling them a naysayer I’d say they are completely right. I don’t regret buying it anyway, though.
- theodric 3y ago
  I also got a Beepberry (which arrived as a Beepy, so I should probably stop deadnaming it) and I generally concur with your analysis. I'm definitely not getting anywhere near the top end of the projected battery life scale with a Pi Zero 2 W installed, nothing much useful fits on the display, and I have to sit under more light than I'd like hitting my eyeballs to read the screen. Incidentally, there exists now a functional analogue - complete with scavenged BB keyboard - sporting an ESP32 and a backlit screen in place of the Pi0 and memory LCD: the Liligo T-Deck. I don't need one, and I won't write software that runs on it, but I still want one because cute LoRa thing.
  - blacksmith_tb 3y ago
    Ooh, the T-Deck [1] looks pretty excellent, I agree. That BB keyboard... 1: https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck
    - forsakenkraken 3y ago
      It is pretty nice isn't it. Now can someone please make one with a nice metal case and the ability to run android on it. Then I can basically have my replacement for my much missed Nokia E71.
  - sifar 3y ago
    The T-deck is based on ESP32-S3 which has a 128b simd data path too. And apparently it can boot linux too [0] :). My ideal device would have uC - ESP32/nrf Display - Memory LCD Keypad LoRa GPS LTE (optional) And yes - opensource firmware Will happily drop the smartphone for such an above device. [0] https://gojimmypi.github.io/ESP32-S3-Linux/ https://gojimmypi.github.io/ESP32-S3-Linux/
rcarmo 3y ago
Hmmm. I posted this a day ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37045886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37045886), and I’m surprised to see it again. Anyway, the reason I found it interesting is that it uses a repurposed BlackBerry keyboard, which I’m sure will have great effect. Most modern mini-handhelds have dismal input methods.
- kragen 3y ago
  yeah, the blackberry keyboards were the best handheld keyboards i ever used. though this gpd micropc's keyboard is a little better i hesitate to describe it as 'handheld'
kragen 3y ago
my comment on this three months ago got upvoted to the top of the thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35980709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35980709 basically, i said the ultra-low-power screen is wasted by using a cpu that uses ten thousand times as much power it would make more sense to use either an ultra-low-power cpu, getting orders of magnitude more battery life (and probably reducing the weight and charge time of the battery), or a screen that takes advantage of the orders of magnitude more power available, with features such as backlighting, grayscale (the memory lcd is really only black and white with no shades of gray), or even color summary from the thread: > unfortunately, their current design seems to have a fatal flaw that renders it useless for its intended purpose ['a weekend chat device' according to erohead], but one that's easily fixed > my comments are not shitting on it; they explain how to fix it, providing information the original designers were evidently unaware of, so that they can ship a product that fulfills its intended purpose, which would probably make them a few tens of thousands of dollars. up to them if they want to do it or not; i'm not an investor. if they don't, probably someone else will comments here from people who are trying the device seem to support my calculation that the battery only lasts the few hours i calculated rather than the intended weekend
- theodric 3y ago
  The screen/keyboard interface/etc. connects to the Pi Zero via GPIO, not USB, so it should be...I won't say trivial, but entirely feasible to swap the Pi for a uC. Some folks on the Discord instance have already shown examples of other devices connected to the Beepy motherboard (and one person even posted a Pocket CHIP wired to a Pi, which is a nice bit of continuity). tl;dr I'm certain this is coming
  - kragen 3y ago
    that sounds fantastic, and i look forward to seeing the results i had an instance of the first blackberry (which was before the 'blackberry' branding; it just said 'rim, research in motion'), and it had the best handheld keyboard i've ever used. the later blackberry keyboards seem quite reasonable too
psuresh 3y ago
Reminds me about Ben Nanonote by some Qi-hardware which had the terrible limitation of absence of USB host though the form factor was appealing
charcircuit 3y ago
This device comes in at ~$100. You can get an Android phone cheaper than that with a much better screen, with a touch screen instead of physical keyboard, a camera, a microphone, cell modem, a bigger battery, a stronger processor, more RAM, and much more.
KingOfCoders 3y ago
Still waiting for the two I've ordered, not yet progress on shipping :-(
xchip 3y ago
Any old cellphone is better than that. If you need io just connect an Arduino using the serial port over USB. I never understood the purpose of these things, other than using them for 10 minutes.
- Defletter 3y ago
  I'd love to Linuxify my old Blackberry

134 points by teleforce 3y ago

I deeply desire one of these that also has 4G LTE. The idea of a portable linux shell that could also make phone calls by typing in something like "call 773-202-LUNA" just sounds super appealing!

calgoo 3y ago
To me it’s to opposite! I’m looking for a device that does not have a baseband on it. I can always hotspot + vpn if I need access to the outside world, but no direct access to the device. Add some encrypted chat software, and got the perfect communication device.
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-wifi-only https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-wifi-only was an option but sadly they pivoted to devices with baseband only... There's https://pyra-handheld.com/ https://pyra-handheld.com/ but it's semi-existent not-quite-vaporware for about a decade already (props on the staying power of looking to get this project finished, though!)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Gemini also the disadvantage of horribly out of date software. Encrypted chat software is not a good combination with Android 8.1 missing years of security patches.
  - forsakenkraken 3y ago
    Planet Computers are probably going down the drain soonish after the fairly disastrous crowdfunding for the Astro phone. I know a friend who has a Gemini and he wasn't impressed either. However I am massively biased, as I paid for a Astro which I'm still waiting for several years after the kickstarter finished. To be fair, they have had pretty major issues with the ODM, but still we've only just found that out recently. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer/x/24837475#/comments https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
- catherd 3y ago
  I make a VoIP/WiFi phone that excludes any sort of cellular radio because that's what I want as well: https://wiphone.io https://wiphone.io
pezh0re 3y ago
I wonder if you could build on Jeff Geerling's work: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/using-4g-lte-wireless-modems-on-raspberry-pi https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/using-4g-lte-wireless...
AshamedCaptain 3y ago
You know you can do that on Android with termux, right? https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux-telephony-call https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux-telephony-call
- kragen 3y ago
  until termux gets banned from android for empowering users too much, anyway it's already banned from updating in google play
  - KetoManx64 3y ago
    Just use F-Droid or download from GitHub then. The power of Android is that you're not in a walled Google Garden and you are in control and can sideload whatever you want from wherever you want.
    - kragen 3y ago
      that's what i'm doing now, but it's probably only about 3 years away that google disables the api level that termux depends on; then you'll have to install lineageos or something in order to be able to use termux
spicybright 3y ago
One project I think about a lot but will probably never do is build a DIY smart phone, writing all the UI and features myself. There's people on youtube that have done this. They're basically off the shelf parts and a raspi glued together in an awkward brick of wires and electronics. I'm interested in learning how to get the hardware all working together, but also making wacky UI that deviate from normal smart phones. Too bad I'm lazy!
- krabizzwainch 3y ago
  Ha I actually had the same thoughts about building an eReader with an eink display and everything. I actually put it together and wrote it with Python for epubs and everything. Then I realized I suck at UI stuff so it’s just sitting at like 65% complete… which is better than my average project actually!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
serf 3y ago
the clockwork-pi uconsole is a handheld small linux device with 4g options; don't know if they are shipping yet.
- exabyte 3y ago
  That keyboard looks incredibly hard to type with, no?

edent 3y ago

My experience with SQFMI's Watchy has been disappointing. As noted in the review - there is close to zero documentation. There is a Discord (that they rarely appear in) where people try to make sense of the random collection of buggy software - but it is a chore. I like tinkering and exploring. But I get the impression that they think their customers appreciate the level of disrespect SQFMI show them.

uxp100 3y ago
The out of the box experience for beepy is better, standard raspberry pi linux plus some drivers, with a script that installs them. Watchy had a supposed easy way to install watch faces that I could never ever make work, had to join the discord and use some other method that worked with only certain faces. But I think the appeal is that these little basically unsupported boards are inexpensive and do have a community that will help, hidden away on discord.

marcodiego 3y ago

> [...] if you add Android and Chrome OS into the mix, there are millions and millions of people who are using Linux on daily basis and don’t even realize it. Actually, if you consider Android, that would be around billions.

extraduder_ire 3y ago
I get "Billions of devices run java." vibes from this, even if it's not a comparable statement. Would be cool to have a linux shell running in a smartcard though.

guessbest 3y ago

I got a few second hand, vintage android and windows mobile devices with those pop out keyboards and getting used to the physical keyboard was more difficult than I remember. For instance everytime I pushed the keyboard with my thumb the device moved ever so slightly. It was difficult to press the keyboard and not slightly shift the screen

captn3m0 3y ago

I’d love if the old Symbian QWERTY phones made a comeback. I had a cheap Nokia X2-01 (https://m.gsmarena.com/nokia_x2_01-3610.php https://m.gsmarena.com/nokia_x2_01-3610.php) running S40, and it did XMPP, E-mail pretty fine. Just make those with a slightly more powerful/modern SoC and let me run Pidgin.

1d22a 3y ago
I came across the Unihertz Titan Pocket [1] yesterday which might interest you. Small, android QWERTY phone which looks pretty cool, depending on your use-case. [1] https://www.unihertz.com/products/titan-pocket https://www.unihertz.com/products/titan-pocket
- rusk 3y ago
  I had the unihertz atom for a while and it was a terrible device with poor software and support. You would think, given it’s based on android you could reflash with something useful but no, they don’t provide you the necessary drivers and stuff to do this. Avoid these chancers.

johnea 3y ago

> if you add Android and Chrome OS into the mix, there are millions and millions of people who are using Linux on daily basis and don’t even realize it. This is even more true than the article states. The largest demographic of linux users is certainly "people who own a television". Almost all modern TVs run linux...

kragen 3y ago
i didn't realize this, but it makes sense probably the number of tvs is much smaller than the number of android phones though; tvs are a luxury good while android phones have become a basic necessity

uxp100 3y ago

I’ve been enjoying toying around with my beepy, but the display is pretty miserable. I’d say you almost need outdoor light to enjoy it. Lights on inside it’s fine, usable, but lots of tilting to get the best angle. And I’d love just a little larger size, maybe another row of text and some more columns. When the device was announced some naysayer here on HN said, hey, that display is lame and the raspberry pi is a bad choice for battery applications, mcus with better options for deep sleep could make this a device with a battery life measured in days, not hours. And despite calling them a naysayer I’d say they are completely right. I don’t regret buying it anyway, though.

theodric 3y ago
I also got a Beepberry (which arrived as a Beepy, so I should probably stop deadnaming it) and I generally concur with your analysis. I'm definitely not getting anywhere near the top end of the projected battery life scale with a Pi Zero 2 W installed, nothing much useful fits on the display, and I have to sit under more light than I'd like hitting my eyeballs to read the screen. Incidentally, there exists now a functional analogue - complete with scavenged BB keyboard - sporting an ESP32 and a backlit screen in place of the Pi0 and memory LCD: the Liligo T-Deck. I don't need one, and I won't write software that runs on it, but I still want one because cute LoRa thing.
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  Ooh, the T-Deck [1] looks pretty excellent, I agree. That BB keyboard... 1: https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck https://www.lilygo.cc/products/t-deck
  - forsakenkraken 3y ago
    It is pretty nice isn't it. Now can someone please make one with a nice metal case and the ability to run android on it. Then I can basically have my replacement for my much missed Nokia E71.
- sifar 3y ago
  The T-deck is based on ESP32-S3 which has a 128b simd data path too. And apparently it can boot linux too [0] :). My ideal device would have uC - ESP32/nrf Display - Memory LCD Keypad LoRa GPS LTE (optional) And yes - opensource firmware Will happily drop the smartphone for such an above device. [0] https://gojimmypi.github.io/ESP32-S3-Linux/ https://gojimmypi.github.io/ESP32-S3-Linux/

rcarmo 3y ago

Hmmm. I posted this a day ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37045886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37045886), and I’m surprised to see it again. Anyway, the reason I found it interesting is that it uses a repurposed BlackBerry keyboard, which I’m sure will have great effect. Most modern mini-handhelds have dismal input methods.

kragen 3y ago
yeah, the blackberry keyboards were the best handheld keyboards i ever used. though this gpd micropc's keyboard is a little better i hesitate to describe it as 'handheld'

kragen 3y ago

my comment on this three months ago got upvoted to the top of the thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35980709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35980709 basically, i said the ultra-low-power screen is wasted by using a cpu that uses ten thousand times as much power it would make more sense to use either an ultra-low-power cpu, getting orders of magnitude more battery life (and probably reducing the weight and charge time of the battery), or a screen that takes advantage of the orders of magnitude more power available, with features such as backlighting, grayscale (the memory lcd is really only black and white with no shades of gray), or even color summary from the thread: > unfortunately, their current design seems to have a fatal flaw that renders it useless for its intended purpose ['a weekend chat device' according to erohead], but one that's easily fixed > my comments are not shitting on it; they explain how to fix it, providing information the original designers were evidently unaware of, so that they can ship a product that fulfills its intended purpose, which would probably make them a few tens of thousands of dollars. up to them if they want to do it or not; i'm not an investor. if they don't, probably someone else will comments here from people who are trying the device seem to support my calculation that the battery only lasts the few hours i calculated rather than the intended weekend

theodric 3y ago
The screen/keyboard interface/etc. connects to the Pi Zero via GPIO, not USB, so it should be...I won't say trivial, but entirely feasible to swap the Pi for a uC. Some folks on the Discord instance have already shown examples of other devices connected to the Beepy motherboard (and one person even posted a Pocket CHIP wired to a Pi, which is a nice bit of continuity). tl;dr I'm certain this is coming
- kragen 3y ago
  that sounds fantastic, and i look forward to seeing the results i had an instance of the first blackberry (which was before the 'blackberry' branding; it just said 'rim, research in motion'), and it had the best handheld keyboard i've ever used. the later blackberry keyboards seem quite reasonable too

psuresh 3y ago

Reminds me about Ben Nanonote by some Qi-hardware which had the terrible limitation of absence of USB host though the form factor was appealing

charcircuit 3y ago

This device comes in at ~$100. You can get an Android phone cheaper than that with a much better screen, with a touch screen instead of physical keyboard, a camera, a microphone, cell modem, a bigger battery, a stronger processor, more RAM, and much more.

KingOfCoders 3y ago

Still waiting for the two I've ordered, not yet progress on shipping :-(

xchip 3y ago

Any old cellphone is better than that. If you need io just connect an Arduino using the serial port over USB. I never understood the purpose of these things, other than using them for 10 minutes.

Defletter 3y ago
I'd love to Linuxify my old Blackberry