4 ms·

Isn’t trading with certain states like sanctioning of how they treat their population? Withholding trade seems fair. We don’t want to deal with you because you

Isn’t trading with certain states like sanctioning of how they treat their population? Withholding trade seems fair. We don’t want to deal with you because you start murderous wars for example seems fair. As for “multi polarity”.. seems so far like the catchphrase of shitty governments and unhappy people here that dream of some radical change.. It’s a false word somehow

rvnx 3y ago
The only time I've heard the expression about multipolar was from Chinese and Russian Foreign Minister playbook. Add "NATO", "Russophobia", "Nazis", "Western" and other keywords in the soup and you have the perfect anti-Western speech. It's not even a Western tool. Sanctions are a tool to refuse to trade with opponent regimes, and it works both ways (China has sanctions on the West too, for example on semiconductors. Russia has sanctions too against the West). It's not perfect, and it has side-effects, but overall it deters other countries / terrorist organizations to follow the same path of taking an hostile posture against you. If you let people go around sanctions, then becoming hostile will simply have no consequences. If there are no consequences to actions, and there is a big prize to win, then the politics will do it, no matter what.
- jasonvorhe 3y ago
  If all you read is propaganda by one empire or another, it's no wonder you immediately associate a term with propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_%28international_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_%28international_rela... Interesting quote: > In April 2023, the Australian government released their 2023 national review where it is outright stated that the age of American unipolarity and primacy in the Indo- Pacific is effectively over, paving way to great power competition and a more fractious world order. It's new to me that Australia is known to spread Russo-Chinese propaganda either.
zirgs 3y ago
Yup - there's no "multi". You either live in a country that's aligned with the USA. Or you live in some sort of authoritarian hellhole. There's no democratic and prosperous country that isn't aligned with the USA somehow. Russia had the chance to become a country like that in the 90s, but they chose to have another tsar instead.
- rvnx 3y ago
  It's honestly very sad the way the world moves :( There was a real possibility that Russia could have joined Europe, but something got broken along the way. I'm not sure that USA is really a strong ally of Europe. It's something in-between. US has its own interests before all. They would lend us (Europe) money and sell us weapons in case we go to war, but a friend giving you a loan and making profit out of you isn't really that great friend.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    Every country has their own interests. The USA is not perfect, but there isn't anyone else out there. Beggars can't be choosers. Especially after European NATO members underinvested in defence for decades and refused to see Russia as a threat that it is. Not that long ago France even attempted to sell them aircraft carriers.
- blowski 3y ago
  At some point, we thought it would be the BRICS. All of them have moved away from that in the last decade.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    Brazil - high crime and corruption, but at least there is some democracy Russia - totalitarian regime with no democracy and no rule of law. India - lots of poverty and corruption, but at least there is some democracy China - authoritarian regime with no democracy whatsoever. South Africa - poverty and corruption. Not very great choices. Also only Russia and China would be safe for people like Snowden or Assange.

rvnx 3y ago

The only time I've heard the expression about multipolar was from Chinese and Russian Foreign Minister playbook. Add "NATO", "Russophobia", "Nazis", "Western" and other keywords in the soup and you have the perfect anti-Western speech. It's not even a Western tool. Sanctions are a tool to refuse to trade with opponent regimes, and it works both ways (China has sanctions on the West too, for example on semiconductors. Russia has sanctions too against the West). It's not perfect, and it has side-effects, but overall it deters other countries / terrorist organizations to follow the same path of taking an hostile posture against you. If you let people go around sanctions, then becoming hostile will simply have no consequences. If there are no consequences to actions, and there is a big prize to win, then the politics will do it, no matter what.

jasonvorhe 3y ago
If all you read is propaganda by one empire or another, it's no wonder you immediately associate a term with propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_%28international_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_%28international_rela... Interesting quote: > In April 2023, the Australian government released their 2023 national review where it is outright stated that the age of American unipolarity and primacy in the Indo- Pacific is effectively over, paving way to great power competition and a more fractious world order. It's new to me that Australia is known to spread Russo-Chinese propaganda either.

zirgs 3y ago

Yup - there's no "multi". You either live in a country that's aligned with the USA. Or you live in some sort of authoritarian hellhole. There's no democratic and prosperous country that isn't aligned with the USA somehow. Russia had the chance to become a country like that in the 90s, but they chose to have another tsar instead.

rvnx 3y ago
It's honestly very sad the way the world moves :( There was a real possibility that Russia could have joined Europe, but something got broken along the way. I'm not sure that USA is really a strong ally of Europe. It's something in-between. US has its own interests before all. They would lend us (Europe) money and sell us weapons in case we go to war, but a friend giving you a loan and making profit out of you isn't really that great friend.
- zirgs 3y ago
  Every country has their own interests. The USA is not perfect, but there isn't anyone else out there. Beggars can't be choosers. Especially after European NATO members underinvested in defence for decades and refused to see Russia as a threat that it is. Not that long ago France even attempted to sell them aircraft carriers.
blowski 3y ago
At some point, we thought it would be the BRICS. All of them have moved away from that in the last decade.
- zirgs 3y ago
  Brazil - high crime and corruption, but at least there is some democracy Russia - totalitarian regime with no democracy and no rule of law. India - lots of poverty and corruption, but at least there is some democracy China - authoritarian regime with no democracy whatsoever. South Africa - poverty and corruption. Not very great choices. Also only Russia and China would be safe for people like Snowden or Assange.