4 ms·

Absolutely amazing progress has been made in treating AIDS. There are medications available now that are able to reduce your viral load to below the limits of d

Absolutely amazing progress has been made in treating AIDS. There are medications available now that are able to reduce your viral load to below the limits of detection, you can live a reasonably normal life as someone HIV positive. A small number of people have even been cured. Discrimination within the medical profession is real and a problem, but I have to doubt the sincerity of your concern for marginalized people when you spread FUD like this. I am forced to conclude you have some bone to pick with the medical profession and are deploying marginalized people as ammunition. That's not cool. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't do that.

gillytech 3y ago
[flagged]
- maxbond 3y ago
  You've failed to demonstrate that this is authoritarian. And I haven't criticized you for criticizing the FDA. I've criticized you for defending your position with misinformation, and for deploying marginalized people as a smokescreen. If your best rebuttal is to put words in my mouth and frame my criticism as censorious, it's time to reevaluate. It's a form of motte-and-bailey argument, you've abandoned your position that no breakthroughs have been made in the treatment of HIV in order to defend something more vague and less falsifiable ("the FDA is authoritarian"). You can choose to either consider whether your position was flawed (my recommendation in this case) or to discard your arguments and find better ones, but if you can't defend your position, there's a problem with your argumentation.
  - gillytech 3y ago
    Marginalized people? What are you talking about? The first cases of AIDS was identified in homosexuals. That's a fact. My position is not that there have been no breakthroughs in the treatment of HIV at all. My argument is that HIV does not cause AIDS. When you don't have empirical evidence to support your fake claim that HIV causes aids then yeah, you need to go authoritarian. Hence endless government and para-government agencies dictating truth through biased and hopelessly flawed studies. When your argument is built on BS you need to argue at the upper levels and never look at the foundation.
    - dna_polymerase 3y ago
      You used the r-word. You come here with claims that go against the status quo and provide zero evidence to support your claims. Just admit it, you don't like gay people. No need for this idiotic 'AIDS is fake' charade.
      - maxbond 3y ago
        This is too far a leap, that haven't said anything overtly homophobic. It's likely they aren't homophobic, who knows. When we make leaps like this we risk the conversation devolving into something where the germane criticisms are lost. It's a lot easier to critique their position and rhetoric than to interrogate the content of their soul, and they will always have the home court advantage there. I'm not the rhetoric police, but that is my advice.
        gillytech 3y ago
        You got it exactly right. Simply stating a fact is not an attack on anyone. In any scientific inquiry one needs to consider all the similarities and differences in the data. Most notably, if HIV is spread through sexual contact, why was it most prevalent in gay men of a particular lifestyle in a particular place? If it were straight white Amish people that it was attacking, I would say the same thing. Not that it matters, but my sister is gay and I am going to be in her wedding this October. I have a much more nuanced understanding of homosexuality as my twin falls into this category.
        maxbond 3y ago
        > if HIV is spread through sexual contact, why was it most prevalent in gay men of a particular lifestyle in a particular place? You've answered your own question. Because they were a community of people in sexual contact with each other, and/or sharing needles. Please consider that, whether or you are homophobic, you are repeating homophobic talking points. The idea that HIV was caused by "lifestyle" rather than a virus was invented to discredit the idea that it was an epidemic requiring urgent medical intervention. It's rhetoric which was invented to frame a disease as a moral failing in order to deny or delay the development of lifesaving care to a population some would prefer to see suffer and die (as well as deny or delay interventions like educating people and distributing protection). This is "gay plague" stuff. Frankly, I can understand why the other commenter took the impression you are homophobic. Sincere congratulations to your sister. I hope the wedding is lovely.

gillytech 3y ago

[flagged]

maxbond 3y ago
You've failed to demonstrate that this is authoritarian. And I haven't criticized you for criticizing the FDA. I've criticized you for defending your position with misinformation, and for deploying marginalized people as a smokescreen. If your best rebuttal is to put words in my mouth and frame my criticism as censorious, it's time to reevaluate. It's a form of motte-and-bailey argument, you've abandoned your position that no breakthroughs have been made in the treatment of HIV in order to defend something more vague and less falsifiable ("the FDA is authoritarian"). You can choose to either consider whether your position was flawed (my recommendation in this case) or to discard your arguments and find better ones, but if you can't defend your position, there's a problem with your argumentation.
- gillytech 3y ago
  Marginalized people? What are you talking about? The first cases of AIDS was identified in homosexuals. That's a fact. My position is not that there have been no breakthroughs in the treatment of HIV at all. My argument is that HIV does not cause AIDS. When you don't have empirical evidence to support your fake claim that HIV causes aids then yeah, you need to go authoritarian. Hence endless government and para-government agencies dictating truth through biased and hopelessly flawed studies. When your argument is built on BS you need to argue at the upper levels and never look at the foundation.
  - dna_polymerase 3y ago
    You used the r-word. You come here with claims that go against the status quo and provide zero evidence to support your claims. Just admit it, you don't like gay people. No need for this idiotic 'AIDS is fake' charade.
    - maxbond 3y ago
      This is too far a leap, that haven't said anything overtly homophobic. It's likely they aren't homophobic, who knows. When we make leaps like this we risk the conversation devolving into something where the germane criticisms are lost. It's a lot easier to critique their position and rhetoric than to interrogate the content of their soul, and they will always have the home court advantage there. I'm not the rhetoric police, but that is my advice.
      - gillytech 3y ago
        You got it exactly right. Simply stating a fact is not an attack on anyone. In any scientific inquiry one needs to consider all the similarities and differences in the data. Most notably, if HIV is spread through sexual contact, why was it most prevalent in gay men of a particular lifestyle in a particular place? If it were straight white Amish people that it was attacking, I would say the same thing. Not that it matters, but my sister is gay and I am going to be in her wedding this October. I have a much more nuanced understanding of homosexuality as my twin falls into this category.
        maxbond 3y ago
        > if HIV is spread through sexual contact, why was it most prevalent in gay men of a particular lifestyle in a particular place? You've answered your own question. Because they were a community of people in sexual contact with each other, and/or sharing needles. Please consider that, whether or you are homophobic, you are repeating homophobic talking points. The idea that HIV was caused by "lifestyle" rather than a virus was invented to discredit the idea that it was an epidemic requiring urgent medical intervention. It's rhetoric which was invented to frame a disease as a moral failing in order to deny or delay the development of lifesaving care to a population some would prefer to see suffer and die (as well as deny or delay interventions like educating people and distributing protection). This is "gay plague" stuff. Frankly, I can understand why the other commenter took the impression you are homophobic. Sincere congratulations to your sister. I hope the wedding is lovely.