5 ms·

> Use of Zurzuvae may cause suicidal thoughts and behavior. Zurzuvae may cause fetal harm. Might be better off just smoking a joint.

snvzz 3y ago
We can't have that. Big pharma doesn't get the check.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Cannabis can also cause fetal harm. And fetal harm is also irrelevant here because this is a treatment for postpartum depression, I.e depression after birth, at which point there is no fetus to be harmed. There's also no credible evidence that cannabis is an efficacious treatment for postpartum depression. But sure, why even bother with science? Just smoke a joint...
- warbeforepeace 3y ago
  What is science and how can i get my neighbor with the trump flag in his yard to learn about it?
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    I'll get back to you once I've figured out how to stop the ongoing deterioriation of American democracy. Right after getting off the phone with the nobel committee.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  Well, considering that science is wrong far more often than it’s right (and done poorly), blindly appealing to it as sole arbiter and authority is maybe a bit hubristic? Also - you can acquire postpartum depression while pregnant. You can get pregnant soon after having a baby. But hey, science.
psychphysic 3y ago
I dug into the FDA docs and relevant studies over the post few months. As far as I can tell that warning might be just boilerplate for antidepressants these days. Similarly for foetal harm it's on animal studies and they advice effective contraception for 1 week after last dose while they collect data.
- habinero 3y ago
  The suicide warning for antidepressants is misleading. They don't cause it, but what happens is antidepressants start giving you more energy and more ability to function before it starts helping with mood. So if you're already suicidal, you can get the ability to act on it before you start getting relief from ideation.
  - psychphysic 3y ago
    Good points. It's also worth remembering that many people do benefit very fast from SSRIs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2211759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2211759/ The idea that improvement was endogenous or exogenous is itself important for that person's resilience and esteem. So I wonder if there is a bit of a white lie there?
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    That’s darkly humorous. That a persons depression is the only thing stopping them from killing themselves. And to get to a better state they have to cross the stage where they are still depressed but have acquired a “can do” attitude. End of day I think scrambling the brain is almost always the wrong choice. That these things are so heavily prescribed and marketed - what does that say?
    - habinero 3y ago
      It says nothing. They don't "scramble" your brain, or artificially make you happy, or any of the other ignorant things people have said. You are exactly the same person on AD as you are off of them. This is like pretending that anyone who gets antibiotics is weak and if you just exercise, you can beat infected wounds. Before antibiotics, people just died from wounds. Before AD, people spent their whole lives trapped by things we can do something about now.

snvzz 3y ago

We can't have that. Big pharma doesn't get the check.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

Cannabis can also cause fetal harm. And fetal harm is also irrelevant here because this is a treatment for postpartum depression, I.e depression after birth, at which point there is no fetus to be harmed. There's also no credible evidence that cannabis is an efficacious treatment for postpartum depression. But sure, why even bother with science? Just smoke a joint...

warbeforepeace 3y ago
What is science and how can i get my neighbor with the trump flag in his yard to learn about it?
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  I'll get back to you once I've figured out how to stop the ongoing deterioriation of American democracy. Right after getting off the phone with the nobel committee.
nemo44x 3y ago
Well, considering that science is wrong far more often than it’s right (and done poorly), blindly appealing to it as sole arbiter and authority is maybe a bit hubristic? Also - you can acquire postpartum depression while pregnant. You can get pregnant soon after having a baby. But hey, science.

psychphysic 3y ago

I dug into the FDA docs and relevant studies over the post few months. As far as I can tell that warning might be just boilerplate for antidepressants these days. Similarly for foetal harm it's on animal studies and they advice effective contraception for 1 week after last dose while they collect data.

habinero 3y ago
The suicide warning for antidepressants is misleading. They don't cause it, but what happens is antidepressants start giving you more energy and more ability to function before it starts helping with mood. So if you're already suicidal, you can get the ability to act on it before you start getting relief from ideation.
- psychphysic 3y ago
  Good points. It's also worth remembering that many people do benefit very fast from SSRIs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2211759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2211759/ The idea that improvement was endogenous or exogenous is itself important for that person's resilience and esteem. So I wonder if there is a bit of a white lie there?
- nemo44x 3y ago
  That’s darkly humorous. That a persons depression is the only thing stopping them from killing themselves. And to get to a better state they have to cross the stage where they are still depressed but have acquired a “can do” attitude. End of day I think scrambling the brain is almost always the wrong choice. That these things are so heavily prescribed and marketed - what does that say?
  - habinero 3y ago
    It says nothing. They don't "scramble" your brain, or artificially make you happy, or any of the other ignorant things people have said. You are exactly the same person on AD as you are off of them. This is like pretending that anyone who gets antibiotics is weak and if you just exercise, you can beat infected wounds. Before antibiotics, people just died from wounds. Before AD, people spent their whole lives trapped by things we can do something about now.