5 ms·

Zonian here. There was zero chance of ever creating a lock free canal. The amount of digging required for that was not possible in the early 1900s. I think p

Zonian here. There was zero chance of ever creating a lock free canal. The amount of digging required for that was not possible in the early 1900s. I think pumping water in those days was far too impractical. Ships need to get raised 85 ft and then lowered 85 ft for the passage. Using gravity to fill the lock chambers was an ingenious solution and minimized the amount of digging. Thousands of people died building the canal and digging from Gamboa to Gatun just wasn’t going to work. In the rainy season there aren’t any water issues. It’s the dry season that is the problem.

slashdev 3y ago
It’s three months into the rainy season and they expect to keep restrictions until September next year. The problem is some years the rain isn’t enough to cover the demand.
- cykotic 3y ago
  I’m not up to date on things now. Thanks for the information. Prior to the handover of the Canal there weren’t any issues with water during rainy season. But Panama City has ballooned in population and the ships going through the canal now are bigger on average. We Americans kept people out of the drainage system for Gatun Lake. We left the jungle alone. I don’t know if there has been a destruction of the jungle around Gatun Lake.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    It seems like a perfect storm of more dry years, deforestation (although not much in the last decade), more water demand from the city, and more electric demand on the dams.
    - cykotic 3y ago
      I hope my prior comment isn’t taken as derogatory toward Panama. Based on when I was last in Panama they’ve done a great job of governance. At least compared to when the Canal Zone was still an American territory. I think, overall, we Americans by 1970s ended up being detrimental to the growth and development of Panama. While it bothered me to lose my hometown I can see the Treaty was the right thing to do.
      - slashdev 3y ago
        I didn’t take it that way. I think Panama owes its existence, the canal, and its democracy to the United States. Also the close ties have been a huge cultural and economic boon. Panama has developed nicely since Noriega was deposed.
  - ornel 3y ago
    Panamanian here. The forest in the Canal watershed is pretty well conserved. The issue now is related to climate change and reduced rainfall. The new locks demand more water, though I can't say if not having those would make a difference in the current situation. The Canal authority wants to dam more rivers and displace 10k people to make sure there is enough water to keep the thing running. Tens of thousands were forced out of their homes to build the Canal originally. It's fair to question how far Panama should go to keep being a canal country
    - cykotic 3y ago
      I had read about rainfall problems some years ago. I thought it was more of one time occurrence sort of thing. Humans have done a remarkably good job of messing up the environment.
    - ckdarby 3y ago
      > how far Panama should go to keep being a canal country Country resources that provide wealth need to invest into other areas that will supplement income. Is the canal taxing and putting that into other projects that are on a trend to displace the income from the canal? As a Canadian I don't know Panama for anything but the canal. Are there things that place it in the top 5 of the world that would justify not being a canal country?
bombcar 3y ago
Just dig a tunnel woooooooo Sorry, things got a bit musky there for a moment.
- ehnto 3y ago
  I wonder how many megaprojects get kicked off from a nose bender, especially in it's heyday. Perhaps the hubris of humanity is just the hangover of a boardroom bathroom break.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    I mean for a lot of megaprojects or crazy ideas like "just dig a tunnel lmao" or "let's dig a canal to connect the oceans" it's not a matter of "is it possible" but "who's going to pay for it"; the rest is time and work, worst case it can be done with a shovel and a lot of patience. This is why I don't understand this notion of ancient projects like the piramids, stonehenge or the moai being impossible; it just took a long time and a lot of people to do.
dmurray 3y ago
85 feet is actually way less than I expected, I thought they were going over a small mountain. Are there any serious plans to dig it a bit deeper? Even taking 1 metre off the highest part seems like it would be significant.

slashdev 3y ago

It’s three months into the rainy season and they expect to keep restrictions until September next year. The problem is some years the rain isn’t enough to cover the demand.

cykotic 3y ago
I’m not up to date on things now. Thanks for the information. Prior to the handover of the Canal there weren’t any issues with water during rainy season. But Panama City has ballooned in population and the ships going through the canal now are bigger on average. We Americans kept people out of the drainage system for Gatun Lake. We left the jungle alone. I don’t know if there has been a destruction of the jungle around Gatun Lake.
- slashdev 3y ago
  It seems like a perfect storm of more dry years, deforestation (although not much in the last decade), more water demand from the city, and more electric demand on the dams.
  - cykotic 3y ago
    I hope my prior comment isn’t taken as derogatory toward Panama. Based on when I was last in Panama they’ve done a great job of governance. At least compared to when the Canal Zone was still an American territory. I think, overall, we Americans by 1970s ended up being detrimental to the growth and development of Panama. While it bothered me to lose my hometown I can see the Treaty was the right thing to do.
    - slashdev 3y ago
      I didn’t take it that way. I think Panama owes its existence, the canal, and its democracy to the United States. Also the close ties have been a huge cultural and economic boon. Panama has developed nicely since Noriega was deposed.
- ornel 3y ago
  Panamanian here. The forest in the Canal watershed is pretty well conserved. The issue now is related to climate change and reduced rainfall. The new locks demand more water, though I can't say if not having those would make a difference in the current situation. The Canal authority wants to dam more rivers and displace 10k people to make sure there is enough water to keep the thing running. Tens of thousands were forced out of their homes to build the Canal originally. It's fair to question how far Panama should go to keep being a canal country
  - cykotic 3y ago
    I had read about rainfall problems some years ago. I thought it was more of one time occurrence sort of thing. Humans have done a remarkably good job of messing up the environment.
  - ckdarby 3y ago
    > how far Panama should go to keep being a canal country Country resources that provide wealth need to invest into other areas that will supplement income. Is the canal taxing and putting that into other projects that are on a trend to displace the income from the canal? As a Canadian I don't know Panama for anything but the canal. Are there things that place it in the top 5 of the world that would justify not being a canal country?

bombcar 3y ago

Just dig a tunnel woooooooo Sorry, things got a bit musky there for a moment.

ehnto 3y ago
I wonder how many megaprojects get kicked off from a nose bender, especially in it's heyday. Perhaps the hubris of humanity is just the hangover of a boardroom bathroom break.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  I mean for a lot of megaprojects or crazy ideas like "just dig a tunnel lmao" or "let's dig a canal to connect the oceans" it's not a matter of "is it possible" but "who's going to pay for it"; the rest is time and work, worst case it can be done with a shovel and a lot of patience. This is why I don't understand this notion of ancient projects like the piramids, stonehenge or the moai being impossible; it just took a long time and a lot of people to do.

dmurray 3y ago

85 feet is actually way less than I expected, I thought they were going over a small mountain. Are there any serious plans to dig it a bit deeper? Even taking 1 metre off the highest part seems like it would be significant.