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> For some reason this makes me feel depressed. Or you can recognize "climate change" is a constant. That bit has been lost with the recent debate over climate
by Alupis 3y ago
> For some reason this makes me feel depressed.
Or you can recognize "climate change" is a constant. That bit has been lost with the recent debate over climate science - far too many people view any change as a disaster.
We can look at this map and recognize vast dramatic changes occurred before humans were ever here.
Humans undeniably have an impact on climate change. That much isn't up for debate. What is up for debate is the exact extent human actions are actually influencing change vs. expediting a predetermined change vs. creating changes that would not have existed otherwise.
Poles have changed[1]... oceans come and go, land disappears then reappears. The earth is surprisingly constantly changing - just not on time scales humans normally contemplate.
[1] - https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/earths-magnetic-poles-could-start-flip-what-happens-then#:~:text=reversals%20took%20place.-,'The%20geomagnetic%20field%20has%20been%20decaying%20for%20the%20last%203%2C000,'&text=The%20last%20reversal%20occurred%20between,threshold%20needed%20before%20rising%20again https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga....
- developer93 3y agoThing is, humans weren't there for nearly all of it. It's not a question of whether things change, it's a question of whether we can survive it as a species, or as a civilisation. Empires have risen and fallen throughout history, but it doesn't mean you'd rather live as part of a society in which you could die of a toothache instead of something more advanced. It's going to get extremely unpleasant, it's a no brainer that we'd like to limit the fallout.
- forgetfulness 3y agoIt'd be quite callous to hope that nothing will happen from the countries above the tropics that 1. Colonized Africa and Asia to secure raw materials and captive markets to develop its industry, pumping all this carbon into the atmosphere in the process 2. Will probably be able to withstand the impact of Climate Change either due to geographical reasons or due to having more developed infrastructure and economies In light of that, is the idea of asking Westerners using their cars less and switch to clean energy _such a terrible thing to ask?_
- developer93 3y agoDid I say anything about western civilisation? I'm talking about humanity. It's quite a leap for you to assume I don't regard countries from the global south as civilised...
- louistsi 3y agoThe changes that we're seeing now are occurring at such a horrifyingly rapid rate compared to the changes we've seen historically though. My reading of your message is that you're conflating historical changes in oceans, landmass, atmospheric streams and polar orientation with modern climate change. The latter is happening at 7 orders of magnitude faster than the former.
- developer93 3y agoThey hit it on the head with their last sentences but managed to go steaming past the point with nary a glance.
- Alupis 3y agoAnd yet nobody really knows for sure how quickly climates changed in the past, or how fast they're supposed to change, or if they always change at a similar rate. On some level, what people advocate doing is creating climate change to benefit humans, which is kind of the antithesis of what climate science activists claim they want. I'm confident we don't understand the earth and climate well enough to "engineer" it to our will. I cannot imagine what a pole reversal would look like today. The truly scary thing is contemplating just how many things depend on, or assume polar north is where it is today. Even more scary, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about polar reversal, and absolutely nothing humans do that is provoking it. It's just a natural phenomenon, during which things will indeed become extremely unpleasant.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> how fast they're supposed to change. The idea that this is even a coherent question is Creationist, because it presupposes a purposeful design.
- Alupis 3y agoInteresting take - it was not my intention to insert a philosophy here such as Creationism. My point was if we're saying something is changing at an alarming rate - then the natural question would be what is a normal rate? One of the problems with observational science is we cannot ever really know for sure.
- vkou 3y agoFuel being combusted during regular operation of an airplane is a constant. Fuel being combusted during an unplanned explosion of an airplane is a disaster. CO2 levels, and, as a trailing indicator, climate are currently changing at a rate that looks more like the latter than the former.
- lIl-IIIl 3y agoRelevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1732 https://xkcd.com/1732
- ethanbond 3y agoWow that is striking. Thanks for sharing!