3 ms·

I dont know which type of Firefox you use, but any reasonably tuned browser (in the privacy sense) fails your systems. I literally didnt have a single instance

I dont know which type of Firefox you use, but any reasonably tuned browser (in the privacy sense) fails your systems. I literally didnt have a single instance of passing them without handing over a pixel perfect fingerprint.

adammartinetti 3y ago
Would you be able to send me a rayID of a failed challenge so I can take a loop? It sounds like you can use https://gitlab.com/users/sign_in https://gitlab.com/users/sign_in to generate one. You can either reply in the comments with the ID (no PII), or email me at amartinetti at cloudflare.com and I'd love to dig into it. We're building Turnstile because we want to make challenges a better system than CAPTCHA. It sounds like for you it's worse, and we want to fix that.
- stebalien 3y ago
  Not OP, but GitLab always cycles for me on LibreWolf, even with "enhanced tracking protection" turned off. It's likely because I disable WebGL? 7f3b42d2bee22efb
  - danShumway 3y ago
    Could also be web workers if you're restricting those? Turnstile won't even load if web workers are disabled, it has no backup logic for that scenario. I can get into the linked site but only if I turn on web workers (I also have WebGL turned off), and while I don't have the RayIDs on me, I have run into scenarios where Turnstile refuses to let me on websites before. I'll add a second vote on here that Turnstile has been worse for me than the system it replaced. It's kind of wild to me that Turnstile doesn't seem to have a fallback. Users can specify one I guess? But they're not required to, and Cloudflare does have some responsibility for giving website operators the option to just turn off alternate challenges. The end result is that if something goes wrong while Turnstile is loading, it's just... done. It just sits there. No captcha, no advice, no feedback, no error message, we couldn't load the code we wanted and now you get to look at a spinner for eternity with no indication of whether you're blocked because of a browser config or because you don't have cookies turned on or what. And captchas have a ton of problems, but Turnstile is openly designed to test for browser API presence, it's openly designed to use black-box AIs to test how similar your browser is to other people's who have passed before. It's no wonder at all to me that it's tougher on less common browser setups. I'm grateful there are people from Cloudflare willing to help debug these issues, and I don't doubt Cloudflare's intentions, but if I was trying to build a system to encourage browser homogeneity, Turnstile is what I would build. I used to resent being asked to prove I wasn't a robot. Now I resent not even being given the option to prove I'm not a robot.
    - stebalien 3y ago
      Enabled them and restarted, still nothing (although there's a chance I messed it up somewhere, I haven't tested it thoroughly). But honestly, I don't really care given that 99% of the web works otherwise.
- waithuh 3y ago
  7f3bfdf6bee5b9ea here is one. I'm not on my PC so i used a privacy enchanted fork of Mobile Chrome. Enabled WebGL, WebRTC and WASM. Disabled all the fingerprint resistant features i could easily (the only thing messing with your systems could be the HTTP Referrer or Timezone) Perhaps its a DNS-level issue? Does cloudflare use any google related APIs to provide the integrity check?
  - 22c 3y ago
    > Perhaps its a DNS-level issue? I run dnscrypt-proxy and I have seen CloudFlare protected sites reject me based on that. I haven't been able to pinpoint which upstream resolver provider causes it as I have it set to automatically cycle through and it's intermittent enough that I haven't bothered getting to the bottom of it (ie. doesn't happen for several weeks and then happens for 15 minutes or so before resolving). Perhaps it's one of the default DOH providers being used by Firefox? https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/DOH-resolver-policy#Conforming_Resolvers https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/DOH-resolver-policy#Confor... Presumably not CloudFlare themselves, though. I'm not a Chrome user, but does Chrome automatically use Google DNS these days?
    - waithuh 3y ago
      I was using my PiHole and switched to NextDNS to check. Didnt work.
- 3np 3y ago
  7f3d42342ecb4d7f
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

adammartinetti 3y ago

Would you be able to send me a rayID of a failed challenge so I can take a loop? It sounds like you can use https://gitlab.com/users/sign_in https://gitlab.com/users/sign_in to generate one. You can either reply in the comments with the ID (no PII), or email me at amartinetti at cloudflare.com and I'd love to dig into it. We're building Turnstile because we want to make challenges a better system than CAPTCHA. It sounds like for you it's worse, and we want to fix that.

stebalien 3y ago
Not OP, but GitLab always cycles for me on LibreWolf, even with "enhanced tracking protection" turned off. It's likely because I disable WebGL? 7f3b42d2bee22efb
- danShumway 3y ago
  Could also be web workers if you're restricting those? Turnstile won't even load if web workers are disabled, it has no backup logic for that scenario. I can get into the linked site but only if I turn on web workers (I also have WebGL turned off), and while I don't have the RayIDs on me, I have run into scenarios where Turnstile refuses to let me on websites before. I'll add a second vote on here that Turnstile has been worse for me than the system it replaced. It's kind of wild to me that Turnstile doesn't seem to have a fallback. Users can specify one I guess? But they're not required to, and Cloudflare does have some responsibility for giving website operators the option to just turn off alternate challenges. The end result is that if something goes wrong while Turnstile is loading, it's just... done. It just sits there. No captcha, no advice, no feedback, no error message, we couldn't load the code we wanted and now you get to look at a spinner for eternity with no indication of whether you're blocked because of a browser config or because you don't have cookies turned on or what. And captchas have a ton of problems, but Turnstile is openly designed to test for browser API presence, it's openly designed to use black-box AIs to test how similar your browser is to other people's who have passed before. It's no wonder at all to me that it's tougher on less common browser setups. I'm grateful there are people from Cloudflare willing to help debug these issues, and I don't doubt Cloudflare's intentions, but if I was trying to build a system to encourage browser homogeneity, Turnstile is what I would build. I used to resent being asked to prove I wasn't a robot. Now I resent not even being given the option to prove I'm not a robot.
  - stebalien 3y ago
    Enabled them and restarted, still nothing (although there's a chance I messed it up somewhere, I haven't tested it thoroughly). But honestly, I don't really care given that 99% of the web works otherwise.
waithuh 3y ago
7f3bfdf6bee5b9ea here is one. I'm not on my PC so i used a privacy enchanted fork of Mobile Chrome. Enabled WebGL, WebRTC and WASM. Disabled all the fingerprint resistant features i could easily (the only thing messing with your systems could be the HTTP Referrer or Timezone) Perhaps its a DNS-level issue? Does cloudflare use any google related APIs to provide the integrity check?
- 22c 3y ago
  > Perhaps its a DNS-level issue? I run dnscrypt-proxy and I have seen CloudFlare protected sites reject me based on that. I haven't been able to pinpoint which upstream resolver provider causes it as I have it set to automatically cycle through and it's intermittent enough that I haven't bothered getting to the bottom of it (ie. doesn't happen for several weeks and then happens for 15 minutes or so before resolving). Perhaps it's one of the default DOH providers being used by Firefox? https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/DOH-resolver-policy#Conforming_Resolvers https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/DOH-resolver-policy#Confor... Presumably not CloudFlare themselves, though. I'm not a Chrome user, but does Chrome automatically use Google DNS these days?
  - waithuh 3y ago
    I was using my PiHole and switched to NextDNS to check. Didnt work.
3np 3y ago
7f3d42342ecb4d7f
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]