15 ms·
Yammer CEO won't hire anyone from Yahoo who doesn't quit in next 60 days
- spullara 15y agoI wonder if Yammer could issue some sort of legal covenant not to sue that would be binding even if they sold the company or the patent changed hands some other way? It looks like Yammer's CEO filed a patent as recently as last August: http://www.google.com/patents?id=D-r_AQAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=yammer&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6QthT63cOKGF2AW-3-ylCA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwATgK http://www.google.com/patents?id=D-r_AQAAEBAJ&printsec=f...
- brown9-2 15y agoA system and method for collaborative short messaging and discussion are described. According to one embodiment, a computer-implemented method for collaborative short messaging and discussion, comprises grouping users into client networks based on existing shared attributes. System resources are partitioned for messaging across client networks. Users in a client network are allowed to view or respond only to messages within the client network. I know it's just a summary, but this sounds pretty much exactly like the early days of Facebook when user's were confined to their college "network".
- unabridged 15y agoIf you want to bind yourself from suing people who violate the patent just give the patent to public domain, it will have the same effect.
- msbarnett 15y agoIANAL but people who Are A Lawyer seem to feel that there's no legally meaningful way to place anything in the public domain, currently, at least in the United States.
- technomancy 15y agoThe public domain is the wrong place for this, but you can certainly grant irrevocable patent licenses. IIRC this is how the GPL3 works. (Not that you'd have to license under the GPL to use the same strategy, it just shows it's possible)
- msbarnett 15y agoThat makes sense
- scott_s 15y agoWrite up what you did and publish it somewhere. It's not magic - patent examiners would still need to find what you did, and if the patent is eventually granted and someone sued, it's always expensive to deal with lawsuits even if you're in the right. But if you clearly state what you did and put that write-up in some place that is accessible by others and clearly dated, then you've established that others should not be able to patent it.
- untog 15y agoWhile his stance is perhaps extreme, I think it forms part of a larger rejection of Yahoo by the tech community. Sadly, that's going to hurt everyone- Yahoo has some phenomenal tech going on, but most of it generates no revenue. So, we stop using it, Yahoo just fires the developers and continues on it's "content portal" path. Sad.
- cageyjames 15y agoIf you can't overreact on the Internet, where can you overreact?
- wavephorm 15y agoThe dinner table was my family's place of choice.
- psycho 15y agoWhy so sad? There are a lot of good tech companies to work at and Yahoo's current business model isn't bad for it at all, I think.
- untog 15y agoWell, sad in the sense that no matter how many employees move, I doubt they can take YUI, YQL, etc. with them. They'd likely die a long death.
- brooknam 15y agoThis goes a bit far. I am sure there are fine folks at Yahoo who have achieved seniority that they need to support their families. They may object to how the company does business, but can't just walk away job. Is the hiring situation in the Valley really so intense that anyone could find new work in 60 days?
- encoderer 15y agoAny talented engineer, yes. So either you're soulless and refuse to leave, or you're incompetent and you're scared to leave. Either way, not hiring them seems fair to me.
- brown9-2 15y agoThings are rarely that cut and dry. That "soulless" programmer could be locked into a contract from an acquisition, or have other reasons that I don't think warrant a presumptuous "soulless" label.
- brnstz 15y agoThe CEO of Yammer is free to hire whomever he wants, but saying you're either soulless or incompetent is a false dichotomy. Just because your employer's use of patents isn't the most important factor in your life doesn't make you soulless. There are much more controversial topics on which reasonable people disagree.
- prodigal_erik 15y agoThere are few other topics which can threaten the very independence of our profession. That said, patent trolls don't really need engineers—any sociopath who can afford a patent agent can trick the beleaguered USPTO examiners into rubber-stamping an absurdly overbroad patent that claims an entire problem. I'm a little surprised Yahoo didn't assign their patents to some troll who can't be counter-sued.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- brown9-2 15y agoDoes Yammer have similar policies against hiring people from Apple, Microsoft, or Oracle? This reeks of publicity-seeking.
- slantyyz 15y agoAgreed. Just reading the headline alone, I wondered to myself how presumptuous he was to assume that many Yahoo employees even wanted to work at Yammer.
- sunkencity 15y agoYep, now I just want to actively avoid learning what yammer is.
- pbreit 15y agoPoor decision.
- sunkencity 15y agoI'd never work for a company that tried to threaten me.
- mindstab 15y agoAlso this is the first time I've heard of Yammer, while Yahoo is big and old. Is this even a likely occurrence? Have they had or hired many or any yahoo ex employees in the past? Headline read to me "Small no name startup says they won't hire employees from huge company that's also never heard of them" Seems all about the publicity.
- troels 15y agoThat's just you though. Yammer is a pretty well established company. Not large compared to Yahoo, but not a tiny unknown one either.
- 15y ago
- 3pt14159 15y agoI really agree with his sentiments, but sometimes even if someone wants to quit in the next 60 days, they can't. Example 1: Yahoo buys out your company, but it is more of a talent acquisition rather than a real tech/market grab, and the terms of the deal are marked accordingly. Example 2: Someone takes a job at Yahoo as a sales exec, but differs all their compensation in favor of stock options that expire at a very specific date. But yeah, generally I like the direction this is going.
- NameNickHN 15y agoIf everybody would quit because of some (perceived) wrongdoing on part of their employer, most businesses probably would have to close up for lack of employees.
- enjo 15y agoThat would seem to be the idea here wouldn't it?
- petercooper 15y agoMicrosoft and Apple would be history, just for starters. Y'know, publicly calling on people to quit their jobs based upon one's own political opinions is really unprofessional and if this guy really said that, it says more about him than Yahoo.
- motoford 15y agoI thought his statement was over the top at first, but after I read the article I say good for him for standing up for what he thinks is right. We all know that this patent nonsense has got to stop. There is nobody building any app anywhere that does not violate some patent. The only way we are surviving is by being under the radar. Let's not forgive Yahoo for this like we forgave Amazon. I'm especially pissed at Yahoo for making me take the side of Facebook on something.
- brown9-2 15y agoBut there is a difference between punishing the company management that made the decision and employees that had nothing to do with the decision.
- potatolicious 15y agoIf my employer suddenly got into the business of mulching orphans for fertilizer, I'd consider it my personal responsibility to quit/move on as soon as possible. Yahoo employees should get no blame for decisions they didn't make, but they do have to bear the responsibility for tacitly condoning this behavior. Considering the current job market for software engineers in the Bay Area, the whole "but I need to pay rent" argument doesn't even hold water.
- larrys 15y ago"If my employer suddenly got into the business of mulching orphans for fertilizer, I'd consider it my personal responsibility to quit/move on as soon as possible." You mean you wouldn't leave the same day? What's the point of using an example like that?
- dlss 15y agoUsing humorous examples generally increases understanding. See http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/20151750?uid=3739560&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=55891422253 http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/20151750?uid=3739560&#... (or your local psych textbooks :p)
- eta_carinae 15y agoIf you only decide to stop hiring Yahoo engineers now, you're a bit too late to the game. Anyone who's still at Yahoo1 today is probably someone who hasn't been able to find a job elsewhere. I have interviewed a lot of Yahoo! engineers these past years and it's been an unmitigated (as in 100% rejection) disaster.
- gms 15y agoThis comment is correct, but I would make an exception for the fine folk in Yahoo Research.
- dm8 15y agoSeriously? How can you guys paint whole company with the same brush based on few candidates you interviewed? YUI team has some cool stuff under their belt. And how about Doug Crockford?
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- joe2000 15y agoI think you have a bad sample set. As an ex-Yahoo! I can tell you there are still a ton of really smart engineers at the company. The YUI team, Hadoop team, and the research group are a few places where you'll find particularly high concentrations, but there's talent throughout the company.
- foobar_bar 15y agoIf I were a talented engineer, I would never apply to Yammer in the first place. (Yahoo employee here), I think its time these companies stop thinking so highly of themselves, the sad truth is everyone does patent litigation, fix the system before making sweeping statements or atleast be fair and blame everyone (apple, msft etc included) .There is a bias in the valley against yahoo, some of which is deserved most of which is not. Yahoo has some attractive challenges of scale that might be appealing to some folks and be reason enough to work here. Most of the companies that try to act supercool don't even have a real revenue model.
- rabble 15y agoWell, i think actually, perhaps a call for developers to refuse to participate in software patents, refuse to put your name on it, might be more effective.
- artist777 15y agoCheap viagra http://viagrapedia.com http://viagrapedia.com Thanks for info
- shingen 15y agoWhile it's a perfectly fine choice to ostracize Yahoo for their actions, Yammer's CEO is going to end up looking like little more than a hypocrite at the least, and maybe a dipshit, if he doesn't apply the same rules to all companies equally based on behavior. The odds the CEO will apply the same rule to all other companies acting with patent belligerence? Approximately zero. They'd need a substantial piece of tracking software just to attempt it, and then it'd be down to subjective whim as to which company employees deserves to be 'punished'. Lame. Here's what it's equivalent to intellectually (using an extreme example to frame it): Joseph Stalin was evil, therefore everyone in the USSR was evil; never allow anyone from the USSR to immigrate. Sometimes it's not so simple as to pack up and leave your job when, say, you have children and a family to look out for or any number of a zillion other considerations in life (which is already hard enough in general). Really makes me think the CEO is a serious jerkwad.
- guimarin 15y agoIt can be done. Look at the US. Ever had to fill out, 'Not a member of the Nazi Party between 1933-1945? The US Citizenship test in no way makes the US look like a 'serious jerkwad.'
- shingen 15y agoIf the US Citizenship test assumed all Germans from 1933-45 were volitional Nazis, then yes it'd be a jerkwad test.
- stickfigure 15y agoIf you collect a paycheck from the Gestapo, it doesn't really matter whether or not you call yourself a Nazi.
- atonse 15y agoTo add some perspective Yahoo has just entered the ranks of a Grade-A patent troll. That is the _worst_ of their offenses. That puts them in the same league as Intellectual Ventures. That's it. They're no worse. Let's not lose sight of that. There's no real "news" here, apart from the sad realization that this is the strongest signal yet that Yahoo is now just an empty shell of suits, bean counters, and lawyers.
- efsavage 15y agoThis seems a bit of a broad swath for my taste, as Yahoo is a big place, but when screening resumes, someone listing their software patents is an automatic strike 1 and 2 in my book.
- robryan 15y agoI think it is a bit unfair as a policy, unless then used those patents themselves. While not ideal, right now it would be silly not to attempt to register defensive patents given the resources to do so.
- jongraehl 15y agoIt's okay - they still have one strike left :) I list a patent on my CV.
- efsavage 15y agoI don't search to see if you've ever filed for one, but putting it on your resume to me says that you want to work for a company that promotes them. The day may come when I have to file defensive patents of my own, but I'll never brag about it. And as jongraehl said, there's still one strike left :)
- moocow01 15y agoThis tactic leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Yes patent abuse needs to be dealt with, yes Yahoo is now apart of the abuse and it is sad. But firing a rocket at Yahoo employees by telling them they need uproot their lives or otherwise they will be black listed from employment, with hopes that other companies will follow along is disgusting and says more about Yammer than Yahoo. Look, yes Yahoo needs to take it in the chin as well as their decision makers and true owners. Regular employees even with their stock options are for all intensive purposes not owners. Employees all have unique individual situations (H1B, mortgages, etc etc) and they will leave when the situation is right for them. Weaponizing hiring is just as pitiful as weaponizing patents. Find another way to do it.
- fpgeek 15y agoThey're both terrible, but I'd way "weaponizing hiring" is worse than "weaponizing patents". At least with patents, you're not directly targeting people (just the things they build and the companies they work for).
- tobtoh 15y agoWhat a ridiculous statement from a CEO. I sympathise with the issue he's trying to draw attention to, but his hysterical over the top utterance doesn't reflect positively on him as a CEO. The last thing I want in my CEO is someone who seeks to vilify those who had nothing to do with bad decisions, or judges people in such black and white terms. This reeks of publicity seeking - which reflects even more poorly on the CEO. He's willing to vilify innocent workers to promote his company - so not only does he exhibit poor judgement, he's also unethical.
- marcovaldo 15y agoIt's not only his statement that is ridiculous. Have you see his photo? Admittedly, it is unlikely he had any control over the choice of snap that went with this story, but who approved such a insincere photo on behalf of his company?
- wangjiahua 15y agoIt's not like Yahoo employees voted to sue fb, even it was, what about those who voted "no"?
- kwamenum86 15y ago"Engineer won't ever work for Yammer"
- adnam 15y agoCheap stunt
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- larrys 15y agoWow. Imagine the immaturity and entitlement going on here. Like a girl/guy, that you don't even know if you want to date, stating emphatically that they won't date you unless you stop immediately from any behavior that they find objectionable. How would that go over? Who would want to work for (or date) someone who makes a demand like that, regardless of whether you agree with the issue or not?
- jrockway 15y agoWhat's "Yammer" and what hiring process is finding them so many qualified potential employees that they can afford to artificially limit the supply? Also: when you want employees rather than startup founders, you have to expect that they are in it for security rather than ideals. Very few employee-types who are otherwise happy with their company are going to quit over one lawsuit. It's simply not worth not being able to feed your kids.
- dwynings 15y agoOn the other hand, I'd be more likely to hire someone who quit Yahoo because of the patent issue.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- anigbrowl 15y agoIs he promising a job to anyone who does leave? It appears not. Although I understand his anti-patent sensibilities, a stick without a carrot makes this announcement seem like little more than publicity-seeking.
- anigbrowl 15y agoIs he promising a job to anyone who does leave? It appears not. Although I understand his anti-patent sensibilities, a stick without a carrot makes this announcement seem like little more than publicity-seeking.
- shareme 15y agoHere is an equally non-meaning statement, I will never hire the Yammer CEO to ever walk my dog. Pure bait link BS..
- veguss 15y agoIsn't this illegal? Discrimination laws.
- utopkara 15y agoNo, it isn't legal. He is just being a troll for Yahoo decreasing the value of his prized facebook shares.
- marshray 15y agoHonest question: Which law or code does it violate? It's not like he's refusing to hire people of color or Vietnam veterans or even transsexuals. (Edit: I realize it might sound strange, but there's a legal basis behind that ordering it's not just my preferences :-) He's refusing to hire certain resume' histories arguing that it is professionally relevant.
- utopkara 15y agoFirst of all this is non-merit discrimination; which should bar yammer from doing business with government, and contractors. Check out their fron-page, the top of their customer list is Pitney-Bowes. Second, he is creating a hostile work environment for his own employees who may feel differently about the case, or who have come from companies that collapsed as he is expecting Yahoo would.
- marshray 15y agoI think he's saying that it is an issue of merit, in the sense that he considers it a negative indication of the judgment of an applicant. Hostile work environment? Meh. Sure maybe somebody could bring a suit, maybe they could even have a chance at winning if he was beating people on the head with it every day. But I doubt many startup execs would worry about it to the point they would let it censor their behavior.
- dlss 15y agoLooks like the other comments on here are anti-Yammer. I guess I'll write up why this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. 1. If you read the article, he was apparently talking about people with options and control (Executives, Lawyers, Engineers), rather than janitors or other people who might not have as much say in who they work for. 2. The CEO states that his reasoning is that who you work for and support indicates what kind of person you are ("the talent market in Silicon Valley is so hot right now, the only folks staying at Yahoo are the ones who have stopped caring"). Contrast this with the knee jerk reactions to the article indicating that this is purely about punishing Yahoo. He just doesn't want people who enable bad behavior. He wants Yammer employees who will stand up to him if things look immoral. 3. Yes the article / his announcement is sensational. But look at the general idea: expecting engineers to refuse support to business doing immoral things is taught in every university ethics class. Why not include ethics questions in the interview?
- brown9-2 15y agoRe #1, that is not what TFA says: After some backlash, Sacks is considering modifying his proposal to only extend to executives and lawyers, but he still feels all employees should take some ownership.
- dlss 15y agoNo, no, it is. From the paragraph after the one you are quoting: “People were telling me I need to think of the Yahoo rank and file, folks who have families, but the talent market in Silicon Valley is so hot right now, the only folks staying at Yahoo are the ones who have stopped caring,” (Emphasis on were added. Unless janitors are in hot demand in the valley this confirms the statement as is)
- notJim 15y agoYou're actually twisting the words a little bit. In his original statement, the CEO clearly meant anyone at the company (we can assume he didn't mean janitors and such, but he certainly meant engineers.) Later on, he decided to clarify it only to people with control: executives and lawyers. This would not seem to include engineers. You're making the statement that you think this should include engineers.
- moreorless 15y agoIf he doesn't retract his statement within the next 60 minutes, I will never work at Yammer. What a buffoon.
- jdavid 15y agoI guess we know who has Facebook shares. Maybe he should focus on hiring the best engineers for his own business rather than trying to optimize his value in something else.
- pbreit 15y agoPretty much everyone is missing that the patent situation isn't the only reason an employer might frown on Yahoo employees. The company has been moving sideways (at best) for quite some time and better employees tend to leave in those circumstances. The patent move was just the final straw.
- danielharan 15y agoLots of comments about how this is unfair. Sure. But could it work?
- Zimahl 15y agoWhile I hadn't ever heard of Yammer, just one look at the home page makes it seem as though it's a Facebook rip-off (no other way to really say it) just for use in a corporate setting. Seems as though he's just a little worried that if Facebook bows to the patents his company will be next on Yahoo's hit list.
- niekmaas 15y agoAnd worse, the whole layout is a Facebook ripoff. My girlfriend uses Yammer for work and when I took a closer look at it today it seems that most of the IU elements are 1 to 1 copies of Facebook. Pretty sad to be honest.
- tsieling 15y agoWhat a pig. Jump when I say or I might not hire you.
- kumarm 15y agoI won't hire any one who ever worked at Yammer :)
- pron 15y agoOh, please! I like Yammer (especially Coda Hale's technical abilities), but this is ridiculous. I'm against software patents as much as the next hacker, but treating it like a mortal sin is preposterous. Corporations do far worse things to people and to society than sue other corporations for IP infringement. Drawing the line here, of all places, just shows Yammer's CEO's ethical cluelessness. But I guess he was just pissed and couldn't control himself. It happens.
- azakai 15y ago> Corporations do far worse things to people and to society than sue other corporations for IP infringement. This isn't just unethical in a general sense. If it were, then yes, corporations do much worse. The bigger issue is that Yahoo's move here threatens the entire software industry and specifically the internet. Yes, we already have massive patent battles in the mobile space. But they are fought over the selling of smartphones and tablets - hardware. Many of the relevant patents are software ones, so the distinction is not absolute, but at least they still happen in a clearly hardware-orientated space. The players all sell hardware and are already familiar with the patent game from hardware patents. It's bad there, don't get me wrong, but it is - for now - a controlled bad. Whereas Yahoo's move here does not involve hardware. It doesn't even involve shipping any product at all or even selling one. It's a lawsuit over a website that is free for people to use - one of the most important forms of online business. Imagine if patent warfare broke out on in the web space. It would be a massacre for big companies and startups alike. Everyone violates patents all the time, its impossible to avoid doing so. If such lawsuits are brought, they would devastate silicon valley. Yahoo's lawsuit here looks, worryingly, like it might be the first attack in such a war. That's why people are so shocked and react so strongly - and rightly so. Pressuring companies that use software patents, and pressuring their employees to try to effect change internally or consider jumping ship, is something that makes sense for the software industry to do. To do otherwise would be suicidal. Only Intellectual Ventures and other patent holders win if patent warfare becomes commonplace on the internet.
- pron 15y agoIf I remember correctly, Amazon has sued over web-only supposed patent infringement. It's just that Amazon is so big and powerful, while Yahoo has fallen from grace. I hate it when companies feign moral outrage over what is simply corporate warfare. There are very few companies that, when standing over a cliff like Yahoo is, would choose the right thing over using whatever is in their arsenal to survive. So, yeah, changing the rules of the game is a necessity, but it is Yammer's CEO who's crossing the line by implying Yahoo employees are somehow tainted, like ex-Nazis or something. One company does stand to (possibly) gain from all this - Google.
- barrynolan 15y agoAlberts point re pooling startup patents is interesting, and may have relevance for tech on tech litigation. But it doesn't defend against the shell troll entities.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 15y agoI sincerely don't think Yammer would be able to absorb any significant part of Yahoo's workforce. That said, imagining Yahoos all over took his advice, the company would become a hollow shell with patents. Does he even realize what kind of damage an NPE the size of Yahoo could make? I assume he knows his threats have no effect on the lawyers Yahoo pays to pursue such actions. note: instead of a downvote, I'd appreciate constructive feedback or a discussion. You may like Yammer a lot, or even work for them, but I'm more interested on what did you find worthy of a downvote in my post.
- roopeshv 15y agoI propose, he give employment to everyone who leaves yahoo in next 60 days, then we can talk
- soumyadeb 15y agoThis is really funny. He is asking people to leave without promising them a job. What's the downside of leaving - Risking visa, income etc. What's the downside of not leaving - Cannot be hired at Yammer at some future point :) Who cares in this hot job market. Publicity stunts like this only fit Hollywood. Seems like we have a new culture in Silicon Valley.
- spaznode 15y agoWho really cares what yammer does or says? I wasn't all that impressed with the app when using it. Are they a company anyone actually actively seeks out for employment as anything other than "I can't find anything I like, might as well"?... Fail
- kyle_martin1 15y agoAnd I care why?
- chollida1 15y agomy first reaction to this was similar to most people here, that this guy is just looking for publicity and why punish the good engineers at yahoo for this. However, I do remember the SCO fiasco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO-Linux_controversies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO-Linux_controversies . The feeling I got from the tech community was that SCO engineers were certainly black listed from alot of jobs at other tech companies. I guess it's worth exploring what makes Yahoo and SCO different.
- jjacobson 15y agoI sat in on an interview for a at that time current SCO Engineer. He told us about his current projects like getting Firefox running on their Unix platform. None of us wanted to work with him even though he had the skills we were looking for.
- robomartin 15y agoWhat a jerk and a hypocrite. Patents are, like it or not, one of the weapons of war, if you will, in business. Have been for a long, long time. And, while I too hate the "we invented the button and we have a patent" crowd I also recognize that they exist for a reason. Denying someone employment because the company they work for seeks to enforce their patents --legitimate or not-- is nothing less than being a dick. If you want to do something about frivolous patents get involved politically, seek to understand the issues and push to make sensible changes. So, how about it Mr. David Sacks instead of being a total dick by seeking to cause damage to Yahoo employees, would you use your money and influence to help change patent laws? I have yet to see any of the loud-mouths spouting off about patents offer to do something like put together a fund to be used in pursuing changes to the laws. An, of course, none of them will write a check for a few million to fund it. If I was in a position to get something like this started I would. Maybe someone can reach vocal anti-patent guys like Mark Cuban and ask him to throw the first ten million into the pot to get this going? With the money available in the top layer of tech companies it should be possible to put together a fund with billions of dollars. This fund could either be available to fight patent trolls or act as a PAC (or both). Imagine, if you will, what would go through patent troll's minds if they tried to enforce bullshit patents and this group existed. Let's call it the AFSPL (Americans For Sensible Patent Laws). Furthermore, imagine that this group had massive amounts of money and a whole floor full of lawyers and engineers to throw at the problem. The ACLU of the patent world, if you will. If someone comes after you with a bullshit patent you could bring it up with the AFSPL for review. And, if they see it your way they defend you. Trolls would disappear almost instantly. Bullshit patents would be invalidated. The skies would turn blue and the birds would sing. Maybe they could even mount a massive lawsuit against the patent office itself. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that there's a place for valid an solid patents, even software patents. Having said that, I've read through so many patents that have caused me to yell and scream at the top of my lungs "this is bullshit!" that it is easy to loose hope. Nah, going after Yahoo employees is crap. Get a grip on reality and put your time, effort and passion behind a real solution.
- motoford 15y agoI guess jerk is subjective enough that you can offer that as your opinion. But how is he a hypocrite?
- tptacek 15y agoRandom people aren't pawns for political initiatives, even when the politics are good. And you can't walk it back to "well, there's already a taint for working at Yahoo" without being the guy who just called everyone at Yahoo incompetent. There were many ways this guy could have expressed a similar sentiment without casting aspersions on hundreds or maybe even thousands of totally reasonable, perfectly competent people. Instead, he picked the most classless possible way to do it. I blame this on the choice of Twitter as his venue. Everything he said after it, to Venturebeat, is now subject to the distortions of the news cycle. I know of at least one really smart person who works at and thinks highly of Yammer; I have a hard time believing it's really run the way this article makes it sound.
- jroseattle 15y agoThe lawsuit itself was a douche move. Now, this guy piles on with more douche-ness. Incredibly classless move on this guy's part. As if anyone that he would be interested in hiring had anything to do with the lawsuit filing. And trying to apply leverage by calling them out as some sort of accomplice to the suit if they don't leave in 60 days? Talk about not being able to stand in someone else's shoes. I can think of about a dozen different ways I could have used this as a recruiting opportunity where I didn't sound like a complete dick. This guy obviously doesn't have that capability.
- jebblue 15y agoI hope Yammer fails in business for displaying this type of attitude and from the CEO no less.
- bigbang 15y ago"the talent market in Silicon Valley is so hot right now, the only folks staying at Yahoo are the ones who have stopped caring" Or people who can't leave because of immigration reasons(such as a pending green card).
- bigbang 15y agoThis blog post says much about Yammer CEO, than about Yahoo! employees
- orbitingpluto 15y agoI have a little thought experiment: Yahoo is acting distastefully. David Sacks suggests that we threaten and punish those who work there. This includes those who can have no real influence on company strategy. David Sacks is also acting distastefully. Therefore if we were to follow David Sack's advice we should now threaten David's gardener and pool-boy. I'm sure the cafeteria staff, interns, co-op hires, newly hired, green cards and so forth will appreciate being ostracised like this.
- startupcto 15y agoAnd I wouldn't work for the CEO of Yammer.
- prince_hakeem 15y agoWhy does Yammer make me think of this scene from Coming to America? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29wNCH4RBrk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29wNCH4RBrk
- MikeOnFire 15y agoNot a great policy, but the article goes on to do a good job demonstrating how harmful the software patents have become.
- mthreat 15y agoIf Jeff Dean went to work at Yahoo for 61 days and applied at Yammer, he'd get the job.
- sakopov 15y agoI only wonder what everyone's opinion on someone who goes to work from 9-5 to do the job they love, then come back home to live the life they love, which doesn't involve reading about the company they work for or reading tech news or doing anything to do with their professional life. I enjoy fishing in my spare time and fixing my rusty, dingy boat, not blogging, working on project or running a startup. I know you probably think i'm terrible engineer and wouldn't want to hire me for your startup, and that's your choice. I love engineering and building stuff but I absolutely refuse to be caught up in my professional life 24/7. I may have a wife and kids. An older parent to take care of. It doesn't matter. What matters is i try to live a life and i only got 1 shot at it. I can imagine there are some folks at Yahoo! who have the same stance on their job/life.
- rit 15y agoIsn't this at least partly discriminatory? It seems likely if not Federal, there may be some kind of California law which may cover this. It seems to me that making a public statement about this could burn them in the future.
- talmand 15y agoI'm assuming he's also unwilling to hire people from the top 10 or even maybe top 20 internet-related companies, based on my totally unscientific study, in the world? Because, in case he hasn't noticed, everybody is suing everybody these days. I guess those millions of employees world-wide should just all quit in the next 60 days and move to Silicon Valley since the job market is apparently so hot there. I guess Jonathan Ive should quit Apple and go work for Yammer to save his soul and be considered a good person again. I feel he's just a loudmouth that's lucky his company isn't big enough or well-known enough for him to get slapped down by his investors and/or board and have his twitter account take away. Regardless of how you feel about his opinion or Yahoo's actions, this is a bad move and a potential PR disaster on his part. Plus, who would want to work for him now he's shown himself to be the type of person to blame people for actions they had no part in? And I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks every single employee of Yahoo is worthless, soulless, evil, or whatever, is a total freaking moron.
- basugasubaku 15y agoI just hope people understand Yahoo Japan is not Yahoo. They are basically separate companies.
- jacquesm 15y agoThis guy is an idiot. People at Yahoo that do not determine policy may not be at liberty to simply quit their positions. They'll have dependents, mortgages and other long running commitments. To make blanket statements like this - especially as a CEO - is dumb, plain and simple. I have never used a Yahoo product and I disagree with a lot of things they've done in the past couple of years. But I'd never hold working at some other company during whatever period in their life-cycle against a former employee. Yes, Yahoo! made a dick move. But that does not mean that everybody working at Yahoo! should be penalized like this.
- Robin_Message 15y agoI'm not sure whether to mention this, but here goes. I refused to help a company I worked for create a patent, despite the large cash incentive to do so. I didn't want to have my name on a patent for two reason: firstly, I thought companies, especially startups, would increasingly see even engineers who collaborate with the patent system in a negative light. Yammer has proved me right. Secondly, I didn't want to be personally responsible for making the patent situation worse. Worse? Yes, because despite the assertion made that obviously a good company like ours would only use patents defensively, this was not backed up with any public statement to that effect, nor would even that be binding in the future when management changed or the patent portfolio was sold. Every defensive patent can be used offensively. The suggestion of a defensive silicon valley patent pool (perhaps owned by some kind of internet foundation), more rights for inventors to control how their patents are used, and pressuring engineers not to collaborate in the creation of bad patents would be a good way out of the current madness without requiring a total overhaul.
- andrewparker 15y agoForget about Yahoo's dumb patent trolling decision for a second... If you're still working at Yahoo today that sends a clear message to me about how you value innovation, product quality, thought leadership, and other important assets. As an employee you're making an explicit choice that the company you work for merits spending your most valuable asset: your time. I have been wary of anyone with Yahoo on their resume for the past two years, and will be more wary going forward. This patent troll mess is just another data point in that calculus.
- laacz 15y agoUnrelated question. Is it normal to notify your employer of leaving 60+ days in advance, or is it just USA feature? In Europe there is a common practice (and legally binding, if not agreed otherwise upon notifying your employer) of 30 days notice. I'm curios (sorry, if this qualifies as an offoptic).