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Because it is in a lot of ways? [Mexican living in Mexico here] I've had the chance to live in other countries in Europe (Germany and the UK) for 8 years. I a

Because it is in a lot of ways? [Mexican living in Mexico here] I've had the chance to live in other countries in Europe (Germany and the UK) for 8 years. I also have lived most of my life (and currently live) in Mexico. As someone else said, "rich" people in Mexico can live a good-enough life. But the problem is that 43.9% [1] live in poverty in Mexico. That is, they don't have a way to make ends meet. Worse, the next 20% are just barely living by. On top of that, society is naturally corrupt. You have corruption ingrained in the Mexican culture. From the typical politician corruption, the "plata o plomo" narco corruption, the police officer "get out of a fine" layman corruption; to the "inconsequential" I'll stop in the middle of the street for one minute, just-because. Like, normal layman people always have some reason why some law or rule wont apply to them. It's freaking enraging. Finally you have lack of accountability. In Mexico only 1% [2] of the crimes are resolved. There's murders, assaults, robberies, violations, everything you can think of, and police, the judicial system and all that branch does absolutely nothing. They don't do their work. Moreover, normal people are scared of going to the Prosecution Authority (Ministerio Publico) because they know most likely they will be abused and further defrauded there. > Mexico has it's problems, You have to have lived in Mexico to understand the extent of the brokeness that we have here. A lot of people who live in Mexico and haven't had the chance to live somewhere else will tell you that "it is not that bad", but it is just a lack of knowledge of what "Normal" should be, part a coping mechanism and part Stockholm syndrome. (What else can people do?) [1] https://imco.org.mx/las-cifras-mas-recientes-de-pobreza https://imco.org.mx/las-cifras-mas-recientes-de-pobreza [2] https://www.impunidadcero.org/impunidad-en-mexico/#/ https://www.impunidadcero.org/impunidad-en-mexico/#/

alephnerd 3y ago
That is definetly true. Lack of law and order is a massive issue in Mexico, as well as the collusion/merger of organized crime and politics. That said, all the exact same fears you mentioned that average Mexicans have are the exact same ones that your average Chinese, Indian, Russians, Brazilians, non-Singaporean ASEAN nationals, etc have as well. Mexico is not a "First World" (aka Advanced Economy) in 2023, but it is a solidly upper middle income/lower high income country. If China can be counted as a "developed" country, then by extension Mexico and pre-2022 Russia should as well. My comment stems from the fact that the American image of Mexico resembles that of Syria, Libya, or Venezuela. The kind of horror stories you hear in Michoacan, Oaxaca, or Tamaulipas are similar to those you'd hear of Guizhou, Yunnan, or Xinjiang. The difference is the Chinese govt used a mix of severe repression AND co-opting cartels/triads into the economy (eg. "incentivizing" Triad members to leave Macau and invest in Cambodia)
- dirtyid 3y ago
  >The kind of horror stories you hear in Michoacan, Oaxaca, or Tamaulipas are similar to those you'd hear of Guizhou, Yunnan, or Xinjiang. C'mon this is kind of assinine comparison/argument. It's fine to remind everyone that Mexico is comfortably middle income, and well beyond development indicators needed to build effective manufacturing sectors but they also have law and order problems leading to homocide rates 4x higher than US, 60x higher than PRC. Mexican dysfunction gets disproportionate reporting in US media being basically domestic news adjacent, but it's not completely unwarranted. Mexico may not be categorically an war zone like Syria or Libya but with homocide rate like Venezuela, domestic serenity is closer to failed state territory. That's what people think about when they think of Mexican 3rd world horror stories - open, persistent level of extreme violence gov can't control. Perception worsened by Mexican geography where unlike PRC where violence (especially gun) is thorougly suppressed or extreme persisent violence previously limited to largely frontiers (also now suppressed), in Mexico one is rarely ever more than a few 100 km from crazy town - it seems close everywhere. Mexico still feels like worse 90s Hunan where armed villages had homemade artillery battles. It certainly feels more dysfunctional than ASEAN barring Myanmar, including Sihanoukville Cambodia where PRC pushed triad operations. I say this as a Chinese shill who ranks Mexico city over most tier1/2 PRC cities.

alephnerd 3y ago

That is definetly true. Lack of law and order is a massive issue in Mexico, as well as the collusion/merger of organized crime and politics. That said, all the exact same fears you mentioned that average Mexicans have are the exact same ones that your average Chinese, Indian, Russians, Brazilians, non-Singaporean ASEAN nationals, etc have as well. Mexico is not a "First World" (aka Advanced Economy) in 2023, but it is a solidly upper middle income/lower high income country. If China can be counted as a "developed" country, then by extension Mexico and pre-2022 Russia should as well. My comment stems from the fact that the American image of Mexico resembles that of Syria, Libya, or Venezuela. The kind of horror stories you hear in Michoacan, Oaxaca, or Tamaulipas are similar to those you'd hear of Guizhou, Yunnan, or Xinjiang. The difference is the Chinese govt used a mix of severe repression AND co-opting cartels/triads into the economy (eg. "incentivizing" Triad members to leave Macau and invest in Cambodia)

dirtyid 3y ago
>The kind of horror stories you hear in Michoacan, Oaxaca, or Tamaulipas are similar to those you'd hear of Guizhou, Yunnan, or Xinjiang. C'mon this is kind of assinine comparison/argument. It's fine to remind everyone that Mexico is comfortably middle income, and well beyond development indicators needed to build effective manufacturing sectors but they also have law and order problems leading to homocide rates 4x higher than US, 60x higher than PRC. Mexican dysfunction gets disproportionate reporting in US media being basically domestic news adjacent, but it's not completely unwarranted. Mexico may not be categorically an war zone like Syria or Libya but with homocide rate like Venezuela, domestic serenity is closer to failed state territory. That's what people think about when they think of Mexican 3rd world horror stories - open, persistent level of extreme violence gov can't control. Perception worsened by Mexican geography where unlike PRC where violence (especially gun) is thorougly suppressed or extreme persisent violence previously limited to largely frontiers (also now suppressed), in Mexico one is rarely ever more than a few 100 km from crazy town - it seems close everywhere. Mexico still feels like worse 90s Hunan where armed villages had homemade artillery battles. It certainly feels more dysfunctional than ASEAN barring Myanmar, including Sihanoukville Cambodia where PRC pushed triad operations. I say this as a Chinese shill who ranks Mexico city over most tier1/2 PRC cities.