4 ms·

"Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they a

"Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die." I forgot exactly when Cory Doctorow introduced the term, but this blog post pretty well hashes out the concept https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys

PaulHoule 3y ago
In this case the push for more money is not the problem but cost reduction is. The analogy of the honeymoon where you start a relationship and are careful to do all kinds of little nice things and then you start to take the other person for granted is closer to it, rather than the scenario of Google becoming play-for-play and pushing up ad loads to the human limit of withstanding. For me the quotes reflect both that difference and my discomfort with the word “shit” which use to be just way too popular on HN and in startup culture though I think the situation has largely corrected itself.
ghaff 3y ago
As others have noted, from Cory Doctorow. But you're hearing it a lot recently because it's the mot du jour that people are lazily tossing around to mean "something that I don't like."
- ddq 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Then specify the complaint. It's like saying the food sucks at some restaurant. OK, I guess, but it doesn't really meaningfully add to a discussion. (I don't even disagree that the desire to make more money or need to make any money at all has degraded many services, especially those where users were basically just taking advantage of dollar bills VCs were leaving on the floor.)
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      It's a generic enough phenomenon that it's a fair assumption that it's going to happen later when a service in its early stages. Want evidence? CUSeeMe, Paltalk, AOL Instant Messenger, ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, Skype, Skype for Business, MSN Messenger, Lynq, 13 Chat applications From Google, IRC, WebEx, Go2Meeting, Discord, Slack, Hipchat, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, etc... All of these have gone through this lifecycle and the underlying factor is that these platforms don't interoperate. There's a cognitive disconnect here: people don't think it is strange that a Verizon customer can text an AT&T customer or that an iPhone user can call a Samsung user. Because of that there is fierce competition for better phones, better networks, etc. People also don't think it is strange that a Skype user can't talk to a WhatsApp user... But the mechanics of two-sided markets mean that products like that start to rot as soon as they get established every single time.
- flappyeagle 3y ago
  It's kind of funny sounding, it has the word "shit" so users of it can feel a bit edgy. It just means "bad"
  - Affric 3y ago
    Doctorow actually defines it pretty wonderfully. It doesn’t just mean “bad”. It’s a name for the process that happens to VC funded businesses.
    - flappyeagle 3y ago
      Doesn’t matter how he defines it. It matters how it’s used.
      - Affric 3y ago
        I haven't seen it applied out of the context in which Doctorow has used it... but I have only seen it on Hacker News.

PaulHoule 3y ago

In this case the push for more money is not the problem but cost reduction is. The analogy of the honeymoon where you start a relationship and are careful to do all kinds of little nice things and then you start to take the other person for granted is closer to it, rather than the scenario of Google becoming play-for-play and pushing up ad loads to the human limit of withstanding. For me the quotes reflect both that difference and my discomfort with the word “shit” which use to be just way too popular on HN and in startup culture though I think the situation has largely corrected itself.

ghaff 3y ago

As others have noted, from Cory Doctorow. But you're hearing it a lot recently because it's the mot du jour that people are lazily tossing around to mean "something that I don't like."

ddq 3y ago
[flagged]
- ghaff 3y ago
  Then specify the complaint. It's like saying the food sucks at some restaurant. OK, I guess, but it doesn't really meaningfully add to a discussion. (I don't even disagree that the desire to make more money or need to make any money at all has degraded many services, especially those where users were basically just taking advantage of dollar bills VCs were leaving on the floor.)
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    It's a generic enough phenomenon that it's a fair assumption that it's going to happen later when a service in its early stages. Want evidence? CUSeeMe, Paltalk, AOL Instant Messenger, ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, Skype, Skype for Business, MSN Messenger, Lynq, 13 Chat applications From Google, IRC, WebEx, Go2Meeting, Discord, Slack, Hipchat, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, etc... All of these have gone through this lifecycle and the underlying factor is that these platforms don't interoperate. There's a cognitive disconnect here: people don't think it is strange that a Verizon customer can text an AT&T customer or that an iPhone user can call a Samsung user. Because of that there is fierce competition for better phones, better networks, etc. People also don't think it is strange that a Skype user can't talk to a WhatsApp user... But the mechanics of two-sided markets mean that products like that start to rot as soon as they get established every single time.
flappyeagle 3y ago
It's kind of funny sounding, it has the word "shit" so users of it can feel a bit edgy. It just means "bad"
- Affric 3y ago
  Doctorow actually defines it pretty wonderfully. It doesn’t just mean “bad”. It’s a name for the process that happens to VC funded businesses.
  - flappyeagle 3y ago
    Doesn’t matter how he defines it. It matters how it’s used.
    - Affric 3y ago
      I haven't seen it applied out of the context in which Doctorow has used it... but I have only seen it on Hacker News.