4 ms·

> I will no longer be using the bank's website That's a great temporary measure, but once this has rolled out everywhere and is part of standard commercial ex

> I will no longer be using the bank's website That's a great temporary measure, but once this has rolled out everywhere and is part of standard commercial experiences, are you really willing to completely opt out of online banking because you're not permitted to send fake browser identification? It's a fine philosophical position, but it feels akin to refusing to use public streets because of the existence of surveillance cameras.

JohnFen 3y ago
> are you really willing to completely opt out of online banking Sure, why not? It's not like it's a huge sacrifice on my part. It's just a little reduction in convenience. No big deal. > because you're not permitted to send fake browser identification? That's not the issue for me at all. The issue is if sites require me to use specific browsers, to not use specific extensions, to not be able to modify the browsers, or to adhere to specific requirements in terms of the OS I'm using. Having to maintain a completely different environment in order to use certain websites really is a loss of convenience that I object to. Don't get me wrong -- I don't see this as a huge moral issue. Sites can do what they want, and if I don't like what they want, I don't have to use them. Opting not to use them strikes me as a reasonable and proportional response. The only thing that makes me a little sad is that it's just another thing that makes the web worse and less useful.
- knodi123 3y ago
  > It's not like it's a huge sacrifice on my part. It's just a little reduction in convenience. No big deal. Sure, I get that. I just feel like it's only a little inconvenience now, but in a few years it will be a big one, and so on. After all, the US is _already_ way behind the rest of the developed world in mobile payment/banking tech. > The issue is if sites require me to use specific browsers, to not use specific extensions, to not be able to modify the browsers, or to adhere to specific requirements in terms of the OS I'm using. Ah, I didn't think about that angle. That would be pretty draconian. I foresee a shift to dedicated embedded apps for that, like a restricted VM inside of a browser tab. We'll see!
- mvnuweucxqokii 3y ago
  > Sure, why not? It's not like it's a huge sacrifice on my part. It's just a little reduction in convenience. No big deal. I can easily imagine a world where in ~20-30 years, there are no bank branches or phones or ATM machines or cash--because 99.99% of people have no interest in using those things anymore. In that world, suddenly it becomes an almost insurmountable inconvenience not to acquiesce to whatever is required to use online banking.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    And when that day comes, then I'll figure out some other mitigation strategy.
- aardshark 3y ago
  What does your banking experience look like if losing online banking is a minor inconvenience to you? For me it would be as if my bank ceased to exist.
ndriscoll 3y ago
Unless they're going to trust my own attestion provider (unlikely, and then what's the point?), I would have to buy another computer to use online banking. My computer does not have attestation. I'm not going to move to Windows just to use my bank's website (and I think I saw Windows 11 requires a new computer anyway, exactly because of this attestation stuff?). All of the programs I use and workflow are on Linux. I can't virtualize it since that's the point. Attestation requirements from banks would mean I must run an OS with adware and spyware built in to use online banking. It's not (just) about browsers.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  all valid points - but if every bank requires attestation your solution will be? go use the ATM? I guess you're in the U.S probably so that's an option but basically for some parts of Europe this will mean people will have to use attestation to basically exist.

JohnFen 3y ago

> are you really willing to completely opt out of online banking Sure, why not? It's not like it's a huge sacrifice on my part. It's just a little reduction in convenience. No big deal. > because you're not permitted to send fake browser identification? That's not the issue for me at all. The issue is if sites require me to use specific browsers, to not use specific extensions, to not be able to modify the browsers, or to adhere to specific requirements in terms of the OS I'm using. Having to maintain a completely different environment in order to use certain websites really is a loss of convenience that I object to. Don't get me wrong -- I don't see this as a huge moral issue. Sites can do what they want, and if I don't like what they want, I don't have to use them. Opting not to use them strikes me as a reasonable and proportional response. The only thing that makes me a little sad is that it's just another thing that makes the web worse and less useful.

knodi123 3y ago
> It's not like it's a huge sacrifice on my part. It's just a little reduction in convenience. No big deal. Sure, I get that. I just feel like it's only a little inconvenience now, but in a few years it will be a big one, and so on. After all, the US is _already_ way behind the rest of the developed world in mobile payment/banking tech. > The issue is if sites require me to use specific browsers, to not use specific extensions, to not be able to modify the browsers, or to adhere to specific requirements in terms of the OS I'm using. Ah, I didn't think about that angle. That would be pretty draconian. I foresee a shift to dedicated embedded apps for that, like a restricted VM inside of a browser tab. We'll see!
mvnuweucxqokii 3y ago
> Sure, why not? It's not like it's a huge sacrifice on my part. It's just a little reduction in convenience. No big deal. I can easily imagine a world where in ~20-30 years, there are no bank branches or phones or ATM machines or cash--because 99.99% of people have no interest in using those things anymore. In that world, suddenly it becomes an almost insurmountable inconvenience not to acquiesce to whatever is required to use online banking.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  And when that day comes, then I'll figure out some other mitigation strategy.
aardshark 3y ago
What does your banking experience look like if losing online banking is a minor inconvenience to you? For me it would be as if my bank ceased to exist.

ndriscoll 3y ago

Unless they're going to trust my own attestion provider (unlikely, and then what's the point?), I would have to buy another computer to use online banking. My computer does not have attestation. I'm not going to move to Windows just to use my bank's website (and I think I saw Windows 11 requires a new computer anyway, exactly because of this attestation stuff?). All of the programs I use and workflow are on Linux. I can't virtualize it since that's the point. Attestation requirements from banks would mean I must run an OS with adware and spyware built in to use online banking. It's not (just) about browsers.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
all valid points - but if every bank requires attestation your solution will be? go use the ATM? I guess you're in the U.S probably so that's an option but basically for some parts of Europe this will mean people will have to use attestation to basically exist.