15 ms·

Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.

by jayd16 3y ago

CamperBob2 3y ago
Is there anything a union can't help with, in your estimation?
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  Plenty. U**ons solve one problem only: when value created is high but leverage (=pay) is low. The fact that this problem pops up all over the damn place should tell you something about our relationship to u**ons.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    it's not just low pay. children used to work 10 hours a day and lose hands in machinery. hell, kids are dying in factories now, and the rules just keep getting rolled back further. miners get black lung or asbestos exposure. dudes boiled alive in machinery that didn't have fail safes. company towns that only paid in scrip and then charged you 3x the price of regular goods. people had to fight and die for an 8 hour workday. the bourgeoisie programmer types who've never had to work actually dangerous jobs tend to forget just how incredibly brutal working conditions used to be.
    - pianoben 3y ago
      Seriously! People forget that bosses responded to unionization with actual violent assault, including sending literal bombers against striking miners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain). Children get to go to school and not work because Unions fought. We have a weekend because Unions fought. We have an eight-hour workday because Unions fought.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      We have laws to address those things now. You wouldn't believe the paperwork when someone gets boiled alive at work nowadays.
- jayd16 3y ago
  Of course they don't help everything but setting up a seniority system is a common and well tread union policy and solves the stated problem.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  Big companies with standardized jobs are great for unionization. Union bureaucracy is a great answer to corporate or government bureaucracy. Basically, a big, inflexible place is a good unionization candidate. A smaller, nimble org is a lousy place for a union.

Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.

by jayd16 3y ago

Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.

CamperBob2 3y ago

Is there anything a union can't help with, in your estimation?

jjoonathan 3y ago
Plenty. U**ons solve one problem only: when value created is high but leverage (=pay) is low. The fact that this problem pops up all over the damn place should tell you something about our relationship to u**ons.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  it's not just low pay. children used to work 10 hours a day and lose hands in machinery. hell, kids are dying in factories now, and the rules just keep getting rolled back further. miners get black lung or asbestos exposure. dudes boiled alive in machinery that didn't have fail safes. company towns that only paid in scrip and then charged you 3x the price of regular goods. people had to fight and die for an 8 hour workday. the bourgeoisie programmer types who've never had to work actually dangerous jobs tend to forget just how incredibly brutal working conditions used to be.
  - pianoben 3y ago
    Seriously! People forget that bosses responded to unionization with actual violent assault, including sending literal bombers against striking miners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain). Children get to go to school and not work because Unions fought. We have a weekend because Unions fought. We have an eight-hour workday because Unions fought.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    We have laws to address those things now. You wouldn't believe the paperwork when someone gets boiled alive at work nowadays.
jayd16 3y ago
Of course they don't help everything but setting up a seniority system is a common and well tread union policy and solves the stated problem.
Spooky23 3y ago
Big companies with standardized jobs are great for unionization. Union bureaucracy is a great answer to corporate or government bureaucracy. Basically, a big, inflexible place is a good unionization candidate. A smaller, nimble org is a lousy place for a union.