4 ms·

tangent, this is the fifth time very recently I've seen the word "entshittifaction" on HN, and it's always quoted as well. It reminds me of the German word Ent

tangent, this is the fifth time very recently I've seen the word "entshittifaction" on HN, and it's always quoted as well. It reminds me of the German word Entnazifizierung ("de-nazi-fication"), which was relevant post WWII. Where is this new word coming from?

groceryheist 3y ago
Cory Doctorow
- bjelkeman-again 3y ago
  I thought it was older than last year, but I must be mixing up presentations I saw recently by Cory. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification
  - ydant 3y ago
    It feels older to me, too. It definitely gained a lot of momentum recently around Reddit's recent API pricing changes, but Google Trends shows it having a lot of interest in 2004 and then sporadic interest over the years. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=enshittification&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=e... I don't use Google Trends enough to know how to interpret that data, so maybe there's some quirk of Google Trends that makes it look more significant back then. It would be awesome if some service had a similar feature to Google Ngram Viewer, but for content on the internet instead of books. Search interest isn't quite the same as how much it's being written in content.
passwordoops 3y ago
"Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die." I forgot exactly when Cory Doctorow introduced the term, but this blog post pretty well hashes out the concept https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  In this case the push for more money is not the problem but cost reduction is. The analogy of the honeymoon where you start a relationship and are careful to do all kinds of little nice things and then you start to take the other person for granted is closer to it, rather than the scenario of Google becoming play-for-play and pushing up ad loads to the human limit of withstanding. For me the quotes reflect both that difference and my discomfort with the word “shit” which use to be just way too popular on HN and in startup culture though I think the situation has largely corrected itself.
- ghaff 3y ago
  As others have noted, from Cory Doctorow. But you're hearing it a lot recently because it's the mot du jour that people are lazily tossing around to mean "something that I don't like."
  - ddq 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Then specify the complaint. It's like saying the food sucks at some restaurant. OK, I guess, but it doesn't really meaningfully add to a discussion. (I don't even disagree that the desire to make more money or need to make any money at all has degraded many services, especially those where users were basically just taking advantage of dollar bills VCs were leaving on the floor.)
      - PaulHoule 3y ago
        It's a generic enough phenomenon that it's a fair assumption that it's going to happen later when a service in its early stages. Want evidence? CUSeeMe, Paltalk, AOL Instant Messenger, ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, Skype, Skype for Business, MSN Messenger, Lynq, 13 Chat applications From Google, IRC, WebEx, Go2Meeting, Discord, Slack, Hipchat, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, etc... All of these have gone through this lifecycle and the underlying factor is that these platforms don't interoperate. There's a cognitive disconnect here: people don't think it is strange that a Verizon customer can text an AT&T customer or that an iPhone user can call a Samsung user. Because of that there is fierce competition for better phones, better networks, etc. People also don't think it is strange that a Skype user can't talk to a WhatsApp user... But the mechanics of two-sided markets mean that products like that start to rot as soon as they get established every single time.

groceryheist 3y ago

Cory Doctorow

bjelkeman-again 3y ago
I thought it was older than last year, but I must be mixing up presentations I saw recently by Cory. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification
- ydant 3y ago
  It feels older to me, too. It definitely gained a lot of momentum recently around Reddit's recent API pricing changes, but Google Trends shows it having a lot of interest in 2004 and then sporadic interest over the years. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=enshittification&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=e... I don't use Google Trends enough to know how to interpret that data, so maybe there's some quirk of Google Trends that makes it look more significant back then. It would be awesome if some service had a similar feature to Google Ngram Viewer, but for content on the internet instead of books. Search interest isn't quite the same as how much it's being written in content.

passwordoops 3y ago

"Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die." I forgot exactly when Cory Doctorow introduced the term, but this blog post pretty well hashes out the concept https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys

PaulHoule 3y ago
In this case the push for more money is not the problem but cost reduction is. The analogy of the honeymoon where you start a relationship and are careful to do all kinds of little nice things and then you start to take the other person for granted is closer to it, rather than the scenario of Google becoming play-for-play and pushing up ad loads to the human limit of withstanding. For me the quotes reflect both that difference and my discomfort with the word “shit” which use to be just way too popular on HN and in startup culture though I think the situation has largely corrected itself.
ghaff 3y ago
As others have noted, from Cory Doctorow. But you're hearing it a lot recently because it's the mot du jour that people are lazily tossing around to mean "something that I don't like."
- ddq 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Then specify the complaint. It's like saying the food sucks at some restaurant. OK, I guess, but it doesn't really meaningfully add to a discussion. (I don't even disagree that the desire to make more money or need to make any money at all has degraded many services, especially those where users were basically just taking advantage of dollar bills VCs were leaving on the floor.)
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      It's a generic enough phenomenon that it's a fair assumption that it's going to happen later when a service in its early stages. Want evidence? CUSeeMe, Paltalk, AOL Instant Messenger, ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, Skype, Skype for Business, MSN Messenger, Lynq, 13 Chat applications From Google, IRC, WebEx, Go2Meeting, Discord, Slack, Hipchat, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, etc... All of these have gone through this lifecycle and the underlying factor is that these platforms don't interoperate. There's a cognitive disconnect here: people don't think it is strange that a Verizon customer can text an AT&T customer or that an iPhone user can call a Samsung user. Because of that there is fierce competition for better phones, better networks, etc. People also don't think it is strange that a Skype user can't talk to a WhatsApp user... But the mechanics of two-sided markets mean that products like that start to rot as soon as they get established every single time.