4 ms·

I only use X, YouTube, Insta, and TikTok. Browsers should just refuse to connect to any other site besides those

lolinder 3y ago
I take it you have a use case for FTP still that's not yet been supplanted by other, more specialized tools? Please share, rather than snarking.
- Minor49er 3y ago
  To name a few, I interact with a number of sites on shared hosting that have been using FTP for years. I also work with a data server that primarily interfaces with its data store through FTP. It also used to be easier to just host an FTP server and manage its access independent of a website, but still link to it in a browser where people who are not technically inclined could browse and interact with files without needing a separate dedicated client. Even for me, it would be simpler to just see an FTP file listing in a browser sometimes The point is that browsers used to be able to browse the Internet, but major players such as Google have been working hard to limit all of these things to just HTTPS. Excusing things away by saying "well I don't use it, so it's useless" has only helped to narrow this path
  - mattl 3y ago
    Web browsers aren't internet browsers and shouldn't be. There's way too many things on the internet for them to do a good job anyway.
    - Minor49er 3y ago
      Exactly right. This is why we must continue to fight for our FAANG-only locked-down future!
      - mattl 3y ago
        Netscape used to come with a browser, a mail client, a newsreader, an HTML editor. We've moved beyond that now, why worry about a browser being able to read Gopherspace or Gemini pages? Putting those into dedicated browsers of their own has been the perceived action for some time.
        kristopolous 3y ago
        The reason is to connect them together in one experiential flow. That was the purpose of hypermedia, the interconnection of platforms and data sources. People aren't doing that, I realize it, but maybe we should fix that instead of abandon the dream.
        mattl 3y ago
        I’m not against it but I’ve browsed the web and the internet I guess on a NeXT and not seen that. I’ve seen far too many shitty user experiences. The best thing for anything on the net that’s not the web is to write a proxy and host it very prominently and encourage browsers to use it or make a simple extension to use it. 2023 me doesn’t want to install a client for WAIS or Gemini but I would do it if it made sense.
        kristopolous 3y ago
        TBL's browser on the NeXT isn't a great reference point here. Think more of hypercard and go back and visit the computer Chronicles episodes on YouTube for a refresh if you want The difference between the two is TBL's WWW was good for browsing citation based research data that's spread across a network of global institutions while hypercard was more about information organization and presentation. The distinction is subtle in theory but in practice it manifests as inherently different patterns. For instance, the fidelity of a WWW link is coarse. It could be richer, but it's not. I'm familiar with the W3C semantics group btw and I've read their literature. The modern web is neither of these systems but it's also something I believe most people would agree is lacking. Perpetuating the suboptimal anarchy of the present by reinforcing it isn't going to help. More agency needs to be exercised.
mattl 3y ago
Web browsers should stick to web browsing and other tools should handle other protocols at this point in time.

I take it you have a use case for FTP still that's not yet been supplanted by other, more specialized tools? Please share, rather than snarking.

Minor49er 3y ago
To name a few, I interact with a number of sites on shared hosting that have been using FTP for years. I also work with a data server that primarily interfaces with its data store through FTP. It also used to be easier to just host an FTP server and manage its access independent of a website, but still link to it in a browser where people who are not technically inclined could browse and interact with files without needing a separate dedicated client. Even for me, it would be simpler to just see an FTP file listing in a browser sometimes The point is that browsers used to be able to browse the Internet, but major players such as Google have been working hard to limit all of these things to just HTTPS. Excusing things away by saying "well I don't use it, so it's useless" has only helped to narrow this path
- mattl 3y ago
  Web browsers aren't internet browsers and shouldn't be. There's way too many things on the internet for them to do a good job anyway.
  - Minor49er 3y ago
    Exactly right. This is why we must continue to fight for our FAANG-only locked-down future!
    - mattl 3y ago
      Netscape used to come with a browser, a mail client, a newsreader, an HTML editor. We've moved beyond that now, why worry about a browser being able to read Gopherspace or Gemini pages? Putting those into dedicated browsers of their own has been the perceived action for some time.
      - kristopolous 3y ago
        The reason is to connect them together in one experiential flow. That was the purpose of hypermedia, the interconnection of platforms and data sources. People aren't doing that, I realize it, but maybe we should fix that instead of abandon the dream.
        mattl 3y ago
        I’m not against it but I’ve browsed the web and the internet I guess on a NeXT and not seen that. I’ve seen far too many shitty user experiences. The best thing for anything on the net that’s not the web is to write a proxy and host it very prominently and encourage browsers to use it or make a simple extension to use it. 2023 me doesn’t want to install a client for WAIS or Gemini but I would do it if it made sense.
        kristopolous 3y ago
        TBL's browser on the NeXT isn't a great reference point here. Think more of hypercard and go back and visit the computer Chronicles episodes on YouTube for a refresh if you want The difference between the two is TBL's WWW was good for browsing citation based research data that's spread across a network of global institutions while hypercard was more about information organization and presentation. The distinction is subtle in theory but in practice it manifests as inherently different patterns. For instance, the fidelity of a WWW link is coarse. It could be richer, but it's not. I'm familiar with the W3C semantics group btw and I've read their literature. The modern web is neither of these systems but it's also something I believe most people would agree is lacking. Perpetuating the suboptimal anarchy of the present by reinforcing it isn't going to help. More agency needs to be exercised.

mattl 3y ago

Web browsers should stick to web browsing and other tools should handle other protocols at this point in time.