4 ms·

I think we should make these types of experiments with a deterministic model. Is Llama 70B deterministic? Then it could be a good option. In the article, it s

by mg 3y ago

I think we should make these types of experiments with a deterministic model. Is Llama 70B deterministic? Then it could be a good option. In the article, it says To ensure that GPT-4 isn’t falling back on rote memorization, we can ask it to first select two random integers And then they start their prompt with Select two random numbers between 1381 and 1453 and multiply them together, reporting the result. What does that even mean? What type of randomness is at play here?

tromp 3y ago
It means they want to see GPT-4 perform a multiplication whose correct result it likely doesn't have memorized. Randomness does not really matter here. They just need GPT-4 to pick numbers in that range in whatever arbitrary manner it chooses. They got what they wanted: > GPT-4: Sure, let’s select two random numbers in the range of 1381 to 1453. Let’s say these numbers are 1405 and 1421. To get the product, we simply multiply these two numbers together: 1405 * 1421 = 1996025 > Alas, the correct answer is 1405 · 1421 = 1996505.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  But that's arithmetic, not logical reasoning. That's not an LLM's purpose. Also I'm a human and would struggle quite a bit to multiply 1405 and 1421 in my head, and nobody expects me to. I think when we test an AI we should use tests in which humans weren't already beaten by machines half a century ago.
User23 3y ago
> What does that even mean? What type of randomness is at play here? This is you reasoning. An AI that is actually reasoning will ask itself such questions and then either ask for clarification or make reasonable assumptions.
sp332 3y ago
Most LLMs are deterministic, but the tooling around them samples randomly from the output to let users explore the nearby space of responses without having to come up with infinitely nuanced prompts. You can turn this off. However, the structure of OpenAI's GPT-4 is not deterministic. The most likely explanation I've seen is that they only activate some parts of the model for each input, and the parts are load-balanced so sometimes a different part of the model will be responding. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224
- panarky 3y ago
  > they only activate some parts of the model for each input Perhaps you see seemingly random results because OpenAI is A/B testing multiple versions, or different combinations of hyperparameters, so that you can train GPT5.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    Nah; the mentioned paper above (from a few days ago here on HN) show about how GPT4 is nondeterministic because the sparse mixture of experts technique used is nondeterministic based on batch positioning.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- cratermoon 3y ago
  > You can turn this off Not entirely. Even with temperature = 0, GPT4 is non-deterministic.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > GPT4 is non-deterministic. For the curious reader: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224 It appears that it could "easily" be made deterministic.
    - cratermoon 3y ago
      That article went past my level of expertise, which suggests that "easily" is, as you imply, a matter of perspective. It's possible the current behavior is a result of tradeoffs made for performance or cost. Modifications to make the model deterministic could depend on making unacceptable tradeoffs.
- patrakov 3y ago
  This non-deterministic sampling is not only for users to explore the space of responses. Without this, the LLM itself is prone to generate too-repetitive text.
yk 3y ago
Funny enough you can easily use chatgpt 3.5 for this: > Write a python one liner that I can copy and paste into my shell. (Assume the python interpreter is available with the python command.) This one liner should pick two random numbers between 1337 and 2023 and multiply them. And it answers > python -c "import random; print(random.randint(1337, 2023) * random.randint(1337, 2023))"

by mg 3y ago

tromp 3y ago

It means they want to see GPT-4 perform a multiplication whose correct result it likely doesn't have memorized. Randomness does not really matter here. They just need GPT-4 to pick numbers in that range in whatever arbitrary manner it chooses. They got what they wanted: > GPT-4: Sure, let’s select two random numbers in the range of 1381 to 1453. Let’s say these numbers are 1405 and 1421. To get the product, we simply multiply these two numbers together: 1405 * 1421 = 1996025 > Alas, the correct answer is 1405 · 1421 = 1996505.

alpaca128 3y ago
But that's arithmetic, not logical reasoning. That's not an LLM's purpose. Also I'm a human and would struggle quite a bit to multiply 1405 and 1421 in my head, and nobody expects me to. I think when we test an AI we should use tests in which humans weren't already beaten by machines half a century ago.

User23 3y ago

> What does that even mean? What type of randomness is at play here? This is you reasoning. An AI that is actually reasoning will ask itself such questions and then either ask for clarification or make reasonable assumptions.

sp332 3y ago

Most LLMs are deterministic, but the tooling around them samples randomly from the output to let users explore the nearby space of responses without having to come up with infinitely nuanced prompts. You can turn this off. However, the structure of OpenAI's GPT-4 is not deterministic. The most likely explanation I've seen is that they only activate some parts of the model for each input, and the parts are load-balanced so sometimes a different part of the model will be responding. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224

panarky 3y ago
> they only activate some parts of the model for each input Perhaps you see seemingly random results because OpenAI is A/B testing multiple versions, or different combinations of hyperparameters, so that you can train GPT5.
- mlyle 3y ago
  Nah; the mentioned paper above (from a few days ago here on HN) show about how GPT4 is nondeterministic because the sparse mixture of experts technique used is nondeterministic based on batch positioning.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
cratermoon 3y ago
> You can turn this off Not entirely. Even with temperature = 0, GPT4 is non-deterministic.
- nomel 3y ago
  > GPT4 is non-deterministic. For the curious reader: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37006224 It appears that it could "easily" be made deterministic.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    That article went past my level of expertise, which suggests that "easily" is, as you imply, a matter of perspective. It's possible the current behavior is a result of tradeoffs made for performance or cost. Modifications to make the model deterministic could depend on making unacceptable tradeoffs.
patrakov 3y ago
This non-deterministic sampling is not only for users to explore the space of responses. Without this, the LLM itself is prone to generate too-repetitive text.

yk 3y ago

Funny enough you can easily use chatgpt 3.5 for this: > Write a python one liner that I can copy and paste into my shell. (Assume the python interpreter is available with the python command.) This one liner should pick two random numbers between 1337 and 2023 and multiply them. And it answers > python -c "import random; print(random.randint(1337, 2023) * random.randint(1337, 2023))"