4 ms·

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will lik

Why can't you learn the next tool? Everyone in a tech field has to retain the ability to learn new things over time. AI might not take our jobs but it will likely change them. I guess it sucks if you have a fear of learning. Admittedly, at first learning a new thing can be kind of uncomfortable, like getting into a cold swimming pool. But once you get over the initial shock and start moving around, it's not so bad.

vsareto 3y ago
Continuous reskilling for bad pay sucks, especially when you can’t reap from your investment of being a specialist for the first tool. Or the old tool is changed for bad reasons.
qbasic_forever 3y ago
Because for this work it's cheaper for the company to hire a new person with a lower starting wage vs. keep employing and paying higher wages to more experienced workers. It's not the worker's fault they can't learn the new tool (they absolutely can learn it). It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else. Sigh. The value you're talking about here is the cost of their labour. This is like a business owner saying that employees should value their jobs differently to their salary. You're right in the sense that capitalism is fundamentally "people make agreements and decisions within what's available to them" but what's the actual issue you want capitalism to solve, that doesn't create one of the massive downsides that any of capitalism's former rivals has? E.g. monarchy can reward loyalty, but then so can capitalism. Monarchy can just also tell you to go die on a field if you don't kill the other king's people.
  - vkou 3y ago
    > Monarchy can just also tell you to go die on a field if you don't kill the other king's people. What makes you think that capitalism won't do the same to you? Capitalist[1] societies engage in pointless, bloody wars all the time. [1] And communist, and other -ist.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      The society isn't capitalist. The economy is capitalist. Unlike monarchy/communism/fuedalism etc where power and resource allocation are by necessity mostly centralised, capitalism can (and wants to) be divorced from power, and only do resource allocation. Constant realigning it with power (e.g. regulatory capture) is what corrupts it. The sort of (limited) power capitalism creates is by creating value in some way: labour, capital, contacts, resources. It's not derived from strength, unlike the other methods. Of course a government, that is fundamentally derived from strength, and must be, can still fight wars. It can do it much better in fact because its economy was organised by the most efficient manner anyone's ever discovered, and so there's a surplus to tax and an efficient economy to flow requirements through.
      - gitrog 3y ago
        Capitalism doesn't have desires outside of those of the people who participate in it that hold the most power. The desire of those people is more power. Not resource allocation as an ends, but as a means to more profit. It has been shown time and time again that the majority of the powerful players in a Capitalist economy inherited their wealth or opportunities. Capitalism can only function in an economy if a government allows it by setting up the necessary structures and allowing private property ownership. Society can certainly be Capitalist by extension of the economy being Capitalist due to policies and strucutes set up by goverments.
  - walleeee 3y ago
    > what's the actual issue you want capitalism to solve Seeing as it's more or less the de facto world order it should ideally solve global alignment for the long term wellbeing of Earth-borne life
jjoonathan 3y ago
Because the business needs you to keep putting out fires in the old tool while your younger, cheaper replacement trains on the new tool!
- jayd16 3y ago
  Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Is there anything a union can't help with, in your estimation?
    - jjoonathan 3y ago
      Plenty. U**ons solve one problem only: when value created is high but leverage (=pay) is low. The fact that this problem pops up all over the damn place should tell you something about our relationship to u**ons.
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        it's not just low pay. children used to work 10 hours a day and lose hands in machinery. hell, kids are dying in factories now, and the rules just keep getting rolled back further. miners get black lung or asbestos exposure. dudes boiled alive in machinery that didn't have fail safes. company towns that only paid in scrip and then charged you 3x the price of regular goods. people had to fight and die for an 8 hour workday. the bourgeoisie programmer types who've never had to work actually dangerous jobs tend to forget just how incredibly brutal working conditions used to be.
        pianoben 3y ago
        Seriously! People forget that bosses responded to unionization with actual violent assault, including sending literal bombers against striking miners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain). Children get to go to school and not work because Unions fought. We have a weekend because Unions fought. We have an eight-hour workday because Unions fought.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RC_ITR 3y ago
Old tool made one wavelength of light for lithography using a specific laser you are an expert in. New tool makes a different wavelength of light by shooting high energy beams at molten tin and all your PhD research isn't relevant to that. It's not like moving from Adobe to Figma, it's like moving from physics to chemistry.

vsareto 3y ago

Continuous reskilling for bad pay sucks, especially when you can’t reap from your investment of being a specialist for the first tool. Or the old tool is changed for bad reasons.

qbasic_forever 3y ago

Because for this work it's cheaper for the company to hire a new person with a lower starting wage vs. keep employing and paying higher wages to more experienced workers. It's not the worker's fault they can't learn the new tool (they absolutely can learn it). It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> It's capitalism's fault for valuing workers only for the cost of their labor and nothing else. Sigh. The value you're talking about here is the cost of their labour. This is like a business owner saying that employees should value their jobs differently to their salary. You're right in the sense that capitalism is fundamentally "people make agreements and decisions within what's available to them" but what's the actual issue you want capitalism to solve, that doesn't create one of the massive downsides that any of capitalism's former rivals has? E.g. monarchy can reward loyalty, but then so can capitalism. Monarchy can just also tell you to go die on a field if you don't kill the other king's people.
- vkou 3y ago
  > Monarchy can just also tell you to go die on a field if you don't kill the other king's people. What makes you think that capitalism won't do the same to you? Capitalist[1] societies engage in pointless, bloody wars all the time. [1] And communist, and other -ist.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    The society isn't capitalist. The economy is capitalist. Unlike monarchy/communism/fuedalism etc where power and resource allocation are by necessity mostly centralised, capitalism can (and wants to) be divorced from power, and only do resource allocation. Constant realigning it with power (e.g. regulatory capture) is what corrupts it. The sort of (limited) power capitalism creates is by creating value in some way: labour, capital, contacts, resources. It's not derived from strength, unlike the other methods. Of course a government, that is fundamentally derived from strength, and must be, can still fight wars. It can do it much better in fact because its economy was organised by the most efficient manner anyone's ever discovered, and so there's a surplus to tax and an efficient economy to flow requirements through.
    - gitrog 3y ago
      Capitalism doesn't have desires outside of those of the people who participate in it that hold the most power. The desire of those people is more power. Not resource allocation as an ends, but as a means to more profit. It has been shown time and time again that the majority of the powerful players in a Capitalist economy inherited their wealth or opportunities. Capitalism can only function in an economy if a government allows it by setting up the necessary structures and allowing private property ownership. Society can certainly be Capitalist by extension of the economy being Capitalist due to policies and strucutes set up by goverments.
- walleeee 3y ago
  > what's the actual issue you want capitalism to solve Seeing as it's more or less the de facto world order it should ideally solve global alignment for the long term wellbeing of Earth-borne life

jjoonathan 3y ago

Because the business needs you to keep putting out fires in the old tool while your younger, cheaper replacement trains on the new tool!

jayd16 3y ago
Sounds like a union could help but I guess the odds of that are slim.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  Is there anything a union can't help with, in your estimation?
  - jjoonathan 3y ago
    Plenty. U**ons solve one problem only: when value created is high but leverage (=pay) is low. The fact that this problem pops up all over the damn place should tell you something about our relationship to u**ons.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      it's not just low pay. children used to work 10 hours a day and lose hands in machinery. hell, kids are dying in factories now, and the rules just keep getting rolled back further. miners get black lung or asbestos exposure. dudes boiled alive in machinery that didn't have fail safes. company towns that only paid in scrip and then charged you 3x the price of regular goods. people had to fight and die for an 8 hour workday. the bourgeoisie programmer types who've never had to work actually dangerous jobs tend to forget just how incredibly brutal working conditions used to be.
      - pianoben 3y ago
        Seriously! People forget that bosses responded to unionization with actual violent assault, including sending literal bombers against striking miners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain). Children get to go to school and not work because Unions fought. We have a weekend because Unions fought. We have an eight-hour workday because Unions fought.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

RC_ITR 3y ago

Old tool made one wavelength of light for lithography using a specific laser you are an expert in. New tool makes a different wavelength of light by shooting high energy beams at molten tin and all your PhD research isn't relevant to that. It's not like moving from Adobe to Figma, it's like moving from physics to chemistry.