7 ms·

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist righ

by jupp0r 3y ago

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environment. It was quite difficult to hire international talent there for the same reasons. The city itself and university are super nice though.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Question: does that mean there are no indian restaurants in Dresden?
- mainframed 3y ago
  There are. Why wouldn't there be? There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism. Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away. And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citizenship. Finally, this will open you access to all the working places in Europe. My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth, which is a large factor for racism/extremism. Same with opposing climate change laws.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >There are. Why wouldn't there be? Because he said Indians are attacked on the street in Dresden. If that's the case why would you move and open a restaurant there if you're Indian? Or was he exaggerating the issue?
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      "If that's the case why would you move and open a restaurant there if you're Indian?" Because some things do not show immediately and officially all is fine in Dresden. Also the racism that was hiding for some time now shows itself very openly.
    - pavlov 3y ago
      There were 13,000 Jews in Leipzig in 1933. Surely antisemitism wasn’t a problem because so many of them chose to live there. (In 1989 the city’s Jewish population was 30.)
  - OO000oo 3y ago
    > My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?
    - ajmurmann 3y ago
      > eternal human labor trafficking What does this mean? Are there people being trafficked in eastern Germany?
      - OO000oo 3y ago
        Yes, and it's nothing new.
        martimarkov 3y ago
        Apart from just your statement this is the first time I hear about this. I mean there is trafficking everywhere but you statement makes it sound like it’s on a much grander scale. Care to provide more info?
    - mainframed 3y ago
      > Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking? Probably not. I don't even know what it means/you mean.
      - OO000oo 3y ago
        When rich nations destabilize poor nations and incentivize cheap labor to migrate to the rich nation.
        zymhan 3y ago
        You might get more traction calling it "brain drain", since that's the more common term in at least the US.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  There are, but why is that related? You mean because they all did not burn down yet, proofs the racism is not so bad?
- krater23 3y ago
  Oh there are. When you want a really good one, just go to the one on the Alaun Park.
flo123456 3y ago
Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning." Nu, nu. But do you talk with them about their experiences? And sure, you will be fine with a dark skin in the Neustadt and Hechtviertel and co. But move out of that bubble and you have to be prepared to face a different culture.
- fakedang 3y ago
  Neustadt is marketed as some left leaning paradise to outside investors of Saxony's liberalism. But as Indian guy in Germany around 2 years back, that was exactly my experience in Saxony. I have lived across all of Germany over the past few years, and nowhere did I face any hostility compared to Saxony and East Germany in general.
- Herring 3y ago
  That's not how it works. There can be a lot of good people, but all you need is one in-your-face racist encounter to ruin your decade. It's like how even a rumor of a shark will keep you firmly on the beach.
  - blueflow 3y ago
    Do an s/racist/homophobic/ and you have a justification for being a jerk to muslim immigrants.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Ethnic Germans are just as much a threat to LGBT people than fanatic Muslims are, and it's not just the former GDR where reactionary and fascist attitudes bloom. I had to spend half a year in the ass cracks of Niederbayern... not something I'd like to repeat. People openly talking "something like that (i.e. LGBT) wouldn't have been a thing under Hitler" over their beers or someone shouting Sieg and the full pub responding Heil ("Sieg Heil" was the verbal Nazi salute) is common there. And then, these very same people have the audacity to complain that "the gays" lure their children away to the cities... no you moron, you shouting Nazi salutes in a pub does.
dav_Oz 3y ago
Sorry to hear that. I wasn't trying to downplay the issue, I was just recounting from own experiences just visiting the cities (Leipzig, Dresden) multiple times. >The city itself and university are super nice though. Then, I hope this will get more widespread :)
- jupp0r 3y ago
  I wasn't implying you downplayed anything, just wanted to add nuance to your insightful comment.
blueflow 3y ago
I only ever see crying about racism in Dresden in the Media and on HN. Is this an actual thing or just something pushed up because victimhood is idolized too much? The blue collar workers here are diverse af.
- pineaux 3y ago
  Very mature way of saying it: "crying"... Good flame-bait.
  - blueflow 3y ago
    Propose a better wording
Panoramix 3y ago
> I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. So, like the US?
- jupp0r 3y ago
  The US is a very homogeneous country. I live in a very liberal part of it. There are probably places with similar problems although I can't name any. Can you?
  - Strom 3y ago
    I've heard Harrison, Arkansas as an example. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison,_Arkansas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison,_Arkansas [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmlvk9GAto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmlvk9GAto
- questime 3y ago
  I've lived in Texas for 30 years and I've haven't seen anything like what you see in Europe in terms of racist demonstrations and blatantly racist political organizations. The few weeks of my life I spent in Germany felt far more discriminatory. There is nothing like the AfD in the US. The funny thing is while Racist Xenophobia is a huge issue, there is a ton of Xenophobia against various eastern europeans as well.
  - rospaya 3y ago
    > There is nothing like the AfD in the US Because white nationalism is more and more becoming part of the mainstream. GOP is perfectly capable of hosting moderates and quazi-nazis at the same time.
    - questime 3y ago
      I don't believe this at all - the GOP is getting more and more diverse and there is no explicitly racist GOP policy. This is untrue for European ethno-nationalist parties. Sure there maybe a couple of closet ethno nationalist in the GOP but they would be thrown out if they said the stuff their Euro counterparts say in the open. There's also the fundamental reality that because of the 2 party system and the demographics of this country that the GOP could never become an ethnonationalist party. Maybe unless PoC become white supremacists themselves like the Chapelle show skit :D.
outside1234 3y ago
Isn't this a rampant problem across Europe thought? I went on a beach vacation with some French friends and was sort of stunned/apalled at the sort of non-stop "it is all the muslim/immigrants" fault talk.
- lillecarl 3y ago
  In Europe it's the muslims, in the US it's the mexicans, in $place it's $group. French people are known to be rather nationalist though (In the same way US Americans are), but a rampant problem? I have to disagree, it's just like the rest of the world, people need their scapegoat.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  What is this comment down voted? I think that the post makes a valid point. Not speaking about France, but I am always stunned when people think that they can make obviously Islamophobic comments in front of me. I always try to push back, but they regularly push back harder. I'm tired of it. It is bizarre, anti-social behaviour in 2023. I guess that during the 1930s in some of parts of Europe were similar for Jews/Romani. "Normal" daily discrimination was a way of life. To be fair, the social and economic divisions between white French natives and immigrants is large. There is a excellent article in Financial Times about it: <<French riots show how entrenched inequalities have become / The gulf between immigrants and those born in the country is larger than in almost any other developed nation>>: https://www.ft.com/content/25eda9f0-8bd3-41e1-948c-89cc7c0ec66e https://www.ft.com/content/25eda9f0-8bd3-41e1-948c-89cc7c0ec... The solution is to keep talking about it, and continue studying the issue.
  - sebastianz 3y ago
    > I guess that during the 1930s in some of parts of Europe were similar for Jews/Romani. "Normal" daily discrimination was a way of life. 1930s? How about 2023 :)
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      Oh, come on. Are you trolling me? Do you really think that Jews and Romani are facing "normal" daily discrimination _in the same way_ as the 1930s? I beg to differ.
alexnewman 3y ago
What are countries less racist than the United States or Germany? I've found Canada to be incredibly racist against French Canadians. Casually mocked in the streets. If we did that in the USA you'd lose your job
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  Woah, I never heard about this before. Can you share more examples about discrimination against French Canadians? I assume you are speaking from outside Quebec province. Also, can any F/Cs comment from their own perspective? If true, it is a bit disappointing. Canadians that I meet are, on the whole, more balanced and reasonable that Americans. (Yeah, I'll probably get -5000 for that comment. Strictly personal experience.)

by jupp0r 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Question: does that mean there are no indian restaurants in Dresden?

mainframed 3y ago
There are. Why wouldn't there be? There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism. Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away. And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citizenship. Finally, this will open you access to all the working places in Europe. My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth, which is a large factor for racism/extremism. Same with opposing climate change laws.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >There are. Why wouldn't there be? Because he said Indians are attacked on the street in Dresden. If that's the case why would you move and open a restaurant there if you're Indian? Or was he exaggerating the issue?
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "If that's the case why would you move and open a restaurant there if you're Indian?" Because some things do not show immediately and officially all is fine in Dresden. Also the racism that was hiding for some time now shows itself very openly.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    There were 13,000 Jews in Leipzig in 1933. Surely antisemitism wasn’t a problem because so many of them chose to live there. (In 1989 the city’s Jewish population was 30.)
- OO000oo 3y ago
  > My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    > eternal human labor trafficking What does this mean? Are there people being trafficked in eastern Germany?
    - OO000oo 3y ago
      Yes, and it's nothing new.
      - martimarkov 3y ago
        Apart from just your statement this is the first time I hear about this. I mean there is trafficking everywhere but you statement makes it sound like it’s on a much grander scale. Care to provide more info?
  - mainframed 3y ago
    > Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking? Probably not. I don't even know what it means/you mean.
    - OO000oo 3y ago
      When rich nations destabilize poor nations and incentivize cheap labor to migrate to the rich nation.
      - zymhan 3y ago
        You might get more traction calling it "brain drain", since that's the more common term in at least the US.
hutzlibu 3y ago
There are, but why is that related? You mean because they all did not burn down yet, proofs the racism is not so bad?
krater23 3y ago
Oh there are. When you want a really good one, just go to the one on the Alaun Park.

flo123456 3y ago

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

hutzlibu 3y ago
"there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning." Nu, nu. But do you talk with them about their experiences? And sure, you will be fine with a dark skin in the Neustadt and Hechtviertel and co. But move out of that bubble and you have to be prepared to face a different culture.
fakedang 3y ago
Neustadt is marketed as some left leaning paradise to outside investors of Saxony's liberalism. But as Indian guy in Germany around 2 years back, that was exactly my experience in Saxony. I have lived across all of Germany over the past few years, and nowhere did I face any hostility compared to Saxony and East Germany in general.
Herring 3y ago
That's not how it works. There can be a lot of good people, but all you need is one in-your-face racist encounter to ruin your decade. It's like how even a rumor of a shark will keep you firmly on the beach.
- blueflow 3y ago
  Do an s/racist/homophobic/ and you have a justification for being a jerk to muslim immigrants.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Ethnic Germans are just as much a threat to LGBT people than fanatic Muslims are, and it's not just the former GDR where reactionary and fascist attitudes bloom. I had to spend half a year in the ass cracks of Niederbayern... not something I'd like to repeat. People openly talking "something like that (i.e. LGBT) wouldn't have been a thing under Hitler" over their beers or someone shouting Sieg and the full pub responding Heil ("Sieg Heil" was the verbal Nazi salute) is common there. And then, these very same people have the audacity to complain that "the gays" lure their children away to the cities... no you moron, you shouting Nazi salutes in a pub does.

dav_Oz 3y ago

Sorry to hear that. I wasn't trying to downplay the issue, I was just recounting from own experiences just visiting the cities (Leipzig, Dresden) multiple times. >The city itself and university are super nice though. Then, I hope this will get more widespread :)

jupp0r 3y ago
I wasn't implying you downplayed anything, just wanted to add nuance to your insightful comment.

blueflow 3y ago

I only ever see crying about racism in Dresden in the Media and on HN. Is this an actual thing or just something pushed up because victimhood is idolized too much? The blue collar workers here are diverse af.

pineaux 3y ago
Very mature way of saying it: "crying"... Good flame-bait.
- blueflow 3y ago
  Propose a better wording

Panoramix 3y ago

> I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. So, like the US?

jupp0r 3y ago
The US is a very homogeneous country. I live in a very liberal part of it. There are probably places with similar problems although I can't name any. Can you?
- Strom 3y ago
  I've heard Harrison, Arkansas as an example. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison,_Arkansas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison,_Arkansas [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmlvk9GAto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmlvk9GAto
questime 3y ago
I've lived in Texas for 30 years and I've haven't seen anything like what you see in Europe in terms of racist demonstrations and blatantly racist political organizations. The few weeks of my life I spent in Germany felt far more discriminatory. There is nothing like the AfD in the US. The funny thing is while Racist Xenophobia is a huge issue, there is a ton of Xenophobia against various eastern europeans as well.
- rospaya 3y ago
  > There is nothing like the AfD in the US Because white nationalism is more and more becoming part of the mainstream. GOP is perfectly capable of hosting moderates and quazi-nazis at the same time.
  - questime 3y ago
    I don't believe this at all - the GOP is getting more and more diverse and there is no explicitly racist GOP policy. This is untrue for European ethno-nationalist parties. Sure there maybe a couple of closet ethno nationalist in the GOP but they would be thrown out if they said the stuff their Euro counterparts say in the open. There's also the fundamental reality that because of the 2 party system and the demographics of this country that the GOP could never become an ethnonationalist party. Maybe unless PoC become white supremacists themselves like the Chapelle show skit :D.

outside1234 3y ago

Isn't this a rampant problem across Europe thought? I went on a beach vacation with some French friends and was sort of stunned/apalled at the sort of non-stop "it is all the muslim/immigrants" fault talk.

lillecarl 3y ago
In Europe it's the muslims, in the US it's the mexicans, in $place it's $group. French people are known to be rather nationalist though (In the same way US Americans are), but a rampant problem? I have to disagree, it's just like the rest of the world, people need their scapegoat.
throwaway2037 3y ago
What is this comment down voted? I think that the post makes a valid point. Not speaking about France, but I am always stunned when people think that they can make obviously Islamophobic comments in front of me. I always try to push back, but they regularly push back harder. I'm tired of it. It is bizarre, anti-social behaviour in 2023. I guess that during the 1930s in some of parts of Europe were similar for Jews/Romani. "Normal" daily discrimination was a way of life. To be fair, the social and economic divisions between white French natives and immigrants is large. There is a excellent article in Financial Times about it: <<French riots show how entrenched inequalities have become / The gulf between immigrants and those born in the country is larger than in almost any other developed nation>>: https://www.ft.com/content/25eda9f0-8bd3-41e1-948c-89cc7c0ec66e https://www.ft.com/content/25eda9f0-8bd3-41e1-948c-89cc7c0ec... The solution is to keep talking about it, and continue studying the issue.
- sebastianz 3y ago
  > I guess that during the 1930s in some of parts of Europe were similar for Jews/Romani. "Normal" daily discrimination was a way of life. 1930s? How about 2023 :)
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Oh, come on. Are you trolling me? Do you really think that Jews and Romani are facing "normal" daily discrimination _in the same way_ as the 1930s? I beg to differ.

alexnewman 3y ago

What are countries less racist than the United States or Germany? I've found Canada to be incredibly racist against French Canadians. Casually mocked in the streets. If we did that in the USA you'd lose your job

throwaway2037 3y ago
Woah, I never heard about this before. Can you share more examples about discrimination against French Canadians? I assume you are speaking from outside Quebec province. Also, can any F/Cs comment from their own perspective? If true, it is a bit disappointing. Canadians that I meet are, on the whole, more balanced and reasonable that Americans. (Yeah, I'll probably get -5000 for that comment. Strictly personal experience.)