21 ms·

In the grand scheme you are correct - there is enough US corporations' tech in ASML machines so that the US government has enough leverage to force ASML to comp

In the grand scheme you are correct - there is enough US corporations' tech in ASML machines so that the US government has enough leverage to force ASML to comply with its export restrictions. But your details aren't exactly right, I think. Cymer builds light sources for DUV, not EUV. The EUV light sources are built by Trumpf in Germany, at least as far as I know.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
You're incorect. Trumpf doesn't make EUV light sources, just lasers. Cymer builds the EUV light sources, by blasting microparticles of tin with said Trumpf lasers to generate EUV light. > at least as far as I know. You could have also googled this to factcheck before posting if you were unsure ;)
- mathiasgredal 3y ago
  Since ASML builds/integrates the machine, is there any reason why they couldn’t just pull out the EUV laser from the machine, but keep the trumpf lasers, zeiss mirrors and everything else. Then China could just copy the “shooting tin droplets with a laser at 50khz” part.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Because then the Us would get Germany to ban Zeiss and Trumpf and even if they wouldn't, the whole "shoot lasers at tin droplets" bit is insanely difficult to replicate that Canon and Nikon dropped out of the EUV race.
    - mathiasgredal 3y ago
      They already have a light source[1] which they are collaborating with Imec to get ready for EUV, apparently within 2 years[2]. It will be interresting to see how far ASML will go to get around export restriction contracts, since there are billions to be made in chinese lithography. I didn’t know that the US had the capability the control who europeans companies choose to export their products to. [1]: http://www.transientek.com/cpzx/jcxnmgtjgq/jzwckgy/35.html http://www.transientek.com/cpzx/jcxnmgtjgq/jzwckgy/35.html [2]:https://thechinaproject.com/2023/08/03/beijing-pushes-china-to-develop-its-own-euv-light-source-a-key-part-of-chip-making-tech/amp/ https://thechinaproject.com/2023/08/03/beijing-pushes-china-...
foobiekr 3y ago
You might want to read the situation and history in ASML's own words: https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2022/making-euv-lab-to-fab https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2022/making-euv-lab-to-...

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

You're incorect. Trumpf doesn't make EUV light sources, just lasers. Cymer builds the EUV light sources, by blasting microparticles of tin with said Trumpf lasers to generate EUV light. > at least as far as I know. You could have also googled this to factcheck before posting if you were unsure ;)

mathiasgredal 3y ago
Since ASML builds/integrates the machine, is there any reason why they couldn’t just pull out the EUV laser from the machine, but keep the trumpf lasers, zeiss mirrors and everything else. Then China could just copy the “shooting tin droplets with a laser at 50khz” part.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Because then the Us would get Germany to ban Zeiss and Trumpf and even if they wouldn't, the whole "shoot lasers at tin droplets" bit is insanely difficult to replicate that Canon and Nikon dropped out of the EUV race.
  - mathiasgredal 3y ago
    They already have a light source[1] which they are collaborating with Imec to get ready for EUV, apparently within 2 years[2]. It will be interresting to see how far ASML will go to get around export restriction contracts, since there are billions to be made in chinese lithography. I didn’t know that the US had the capability the control who europeans companies choose to export their products to. [1]: http://www.transientek.com/cpzx/jcxnmgtjgq/jzwckgy/35.html http://www.transientek.com/cpzx/jcxnmgtjgq/jzwckgy/35.html [2]:https://thechinaproject.com/2023/08/03/beijing-pushes-china-to-develop-its-own-euv-light-source-a-key-part-of-chip-making-tech/amp/ https://thechinaproject.com/2023/08/03/beijing-pushes-china-...

foobiekr 3y ago

You might want to read the situation and history in ASML's own words: https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2022/making-euv-lab-to-fab https://www.asml.com/en/news/stories/2022/making-euv-lab-to-...