4 ms·

Just weird to me that they build in Germany. Germany basically pressed "delete" on (clean) energy for the coming decades and has very little capacity to serious

Just weird to me that they build in Germany. Germany basically pressed "delete" on (clean) energy for the coming decades and has very little capacity to seriously expand their energy conversion.

j-pb 3y ago
Germany has build more PV capacity in the last three years than the total nuclear capacity it ever build, and the numbers are increasing thanks to regulatory cutbacks by the current government. Meanwhile new nuclear reactors cost 4 times as much as renewables and take decades to build. So stop spreading FUD.
- cpursley 3y ago
  What are the actual numbers? Is PV reliable as nuclear? As cheap as piped natural gas? Can VW build a profitable car and Bosch a washing machine at those rates (vs very strong competitors like South Korea)? Because that’s what keeps the German economy humming (and the EU together).
  - t43562 3y ago
    VW is using renewables for building it's EVs.
    - cpursley 3y ago
      Best of luck to them, they're gonna need it.
      - knallfrosch 3y ago
        What would it even take to change your mind lmao
        cpursley 3y ago
        Healthy numbers. If people aren’t buying VW vehicles because the prices are higher than Hyundai due to the energy situation, that’s not good. Germany is deindustrializing as we speak (chemicals, auto and auto related, etc). Once you deindustrialize past a certain threshold, it’s very difficult to come back.
        flohofwoe 3y ago
        VW just claimed the top spot from Tesla for electric car sales in Germany: https://www.dw.com/en/vw-electric-cars-tesla-germany/a-66468005 https://www.dw.com/en/vw-electric-cars-tesla-germany/a-66468... https://insideevs.com/news/681020/volkswagen-outsells-tesla-germany-ev-market-through-july/ https://insideevs.com/news/681020/volkswagen-outsells-tesla-... Hyundai is currently at sixth place behind VW, Tesla, MB, BMW and Audi: https://insideevs.com/news/677504/germany-allelectric-car-sales-exceeded-50000-june-2023/ https://insideevs.com/news/677504/germany-allelectric-car-sa... In 2022 Tesla was at the top, VW second and Hyundai third, so Hyunday actually seems to be losing ground against other German car brands, at least in the EV market segment: https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2022-full-year-germany-best-selling-electric-cars-by-brand-and-model/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2022-full-year-ge... I think the announcement of the 'deindustrialization' of Germany might be a bit premature.
        cpursley 3y ago
        Those are domestic numbers, I'm talking about the competitiveness of Germany on the _international_ market - that's what matters. It's hard to be competitive when your energy costs are high. Regarding deindustrialization: - https://www.economist.com/business/2022/09/11/germany-faces-a-looming-threat-of-deindustrialisation https://www.economist.com/business/2022/09/11/germany-faces-... - https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/01/06/transition-of-the-german-industry-accelerated-in-2022_6010493_19.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/01/06/transit... - https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-energy-prices-basf/ https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-ener... - https://www.politico.eu/article/rust-belt-on-the-rhine-the-deindustrialization-of-germany/ https://www.politico.eu/article/rust-belt-on-the-rhine-the-d... - https://unherd.com/thepost/recession-in-germany-is-a-sign-of-europes-deindustrialisation/ https://unherd.com/thepost/recession-in-germany-is-a-sign-of...
- lacksconfidence 3y ago
  I don't disagree with your argument, but capacity is a useless measurement. Without considering the capacity factor you might as well be comparing apples to zebras.
- Humpelstilzchen 3y ago
  And thats a good thing in Germany with is known for its sunny weather.
BowBun 3y ago
This is false. Germany is one of the few countries making real progress towards a commitment to clean energy by 2050. I think you're uninformed about the details and failing to grasp the plan beyond a couple of headlines you saw.
- throwaway1777 3y ago
  [flagged]

Just weird to me that they build in Germany. Germany basically pressed "delete" on (clean) energy for the coming decades and has very little capacity to seriously expand their energy conversion.

j-pb 3y ago

Germany has build more PV capacity in the last three years than the total nuclear capacity it ever build, and the numbers are increasing thanks to regulatory cutbacks by the current government. Meanwhile new nuclear reactors cost 4 times as much as renewables and take decades to build. So stop spreading FUD.

cpursley 3y ago
What are the actual numbers? Is PV reliable as nuclear? As cheap as piped natural gas? Can VW build a profitable car and Bosch a washing machine at those rates (vs very strong competitors like South Korea)? Because that’s what keeps the German economy humming (and the EU together).
- t43562 3y ago
  VW is using renewables for building it's EVs.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    Best of luck to them, they're gonna need it.
    - knallfrosch 3y ago
      What would it even take to change your mind lmao
      - cpursley 3y ago
        Healthy numbers. If people aren’t buying VW vehicles because the prices are higher than Hyundai due to the energy situation, that’s not good. Germany is deindustrializing as we speak (chemicals, auto and auto related, etc). Once you deindustrialize past a certain threshold, it’s very difficult to come back.
        flohofwoe 3y ago
        VW just claimed the top spot from Tesla for electric car sales in Germany: https://www.dw.com/en/vw-electric-cars-tesla-germany/a-66468005 https://www.dw.com/en/vw-electric-cars-tesla-germany/a-66468... https://insideevs.com/news/681020/volkswagen-outsells-tesla-germany-ev-market-through-july/ https://insideevs.com/news/681020/volkswagen-outsells-tesla-... Hyundai is currently at sixth place behind VW, Tesla, MB, BMW and Audi: https://insideevs.com/news/677504/germany-allelectric-car-sales-exceeded-50000-june-2023/ https://insideevs.com/news/677504/germany-allelectric-car-sa... In 2022 Tesla was at the top, VW second and Hyundai third, so Hyunday actually seems to be losing ground against other German car brands, at least in the EV market segment: https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2022-full-year-germany-best-selling-electric-cars-by-brand-and-model/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2022-full-year-ge... I think the announcement of the 'deindustrialization' of Germany might be a bit premature.
        cpursley 3y ago
        Those are domestic numbers, I'm talking about the competitiveness of Germany on the _international_ market - that's what matters. It's hard to be competitive when your energy costs are high. Regarding deindustrialization: - https://www.economist.com/business/2022/09/11/germany-faces-a-looming-threat-of-deindustrialisation https://www.economist.com/business/2022/09/11/germany-faces-... - https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/01/06/transition-of-the-german-industry-accelerated-in-2022_6010493_19.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/01/06/transit... - https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-energy-prices-basf/ https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-ener... - https://www.politico.eu/article/rust-belt-on-the-rhine-the-deindustrialization-of-germany/ https://www.politico.eu/article/rust-belt-on-the-rhine-the-d... - https://unherd.com/thepost/recession-in-germany-is-a-sign-of-europes-deindustrialisation/ https://unherd.com/thepost/recession-in-germany-is-a-sign-of...
lacksconfidence 3y ago
I don't disagree with your argument, but capacity is a useless measurement. Without considering the capacity factor you might as well be comparing apples to zebras.
Humpelstilzchen 3y ago
And thats a good thing in Germany with is known for its sunny weather.

BowBun 3y ago

This is false. Germany is one of the few countries making real progress towards a commitment to clean energy by 2050. I think you're uninformed about the details and failing to grasp the plan beyond a couple of headlines you saw.

throwaway1777 3y ago
[flagged]