4 ms·

I'm a total newb regarding bikes but this Youtube channel seems quite solid from a distance regarding reliable bikes: https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout http

by oblio 3y ago

I'm a total newb regarding bikes but this Youtube channel seems quite solid from a distance regarding reliable bikes: https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout Considering he's the kind of person that rides around the world, and that the suggestions seem well presented, internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability.

jacquesm 3y ago
> Internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability It is. But make sure you get a solid internal gear hub because they're not all made the same. Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers (that's a personal opinion, others may well disagree). B-brands or anything open or chain based is going to be a lot less reliable.
- oblio 3y ago
  > Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. He actually recommends Shimano Alfine 8, he finds it has a good balance between robustness and the way it handles.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Yes, that makes sense, the 8 is a nice optimum. But if you engineer for maximum reliability and still need more than 3 gears then that five is as good as it gets. It's the NEXUS SG-C7002-5CD 5-speed model, to be specific. There is also an e-bike one for even more torque applications.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      IMO for e-bike you probably should be looking at the enviolo CVTs. Sure they're a little less efficient but you can get 330% gear range with ridiculous durability and have the option for electronic shifting. (that said my bike is a non-ebike shimano alfine 8)
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Enviolo sucks. We have one Enviolo bike in the family. We use it as creative punishment. It sucks. Even for an e-bike.
        oblio 3y ago
        Why does it suck?
        adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        they are slow and heavy. Specifically they are roughly 85% efficient compared to ~90% for an internal gearbox or ~95% for a derailer. They also add about 1 pound compared to a gearbox or 2 pounds compared to a 1x derailer system.
        oblio 3y ago
        Does it matter for ebikes? Especially for commuter bikes.
        adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        I'd argue no (that's why I recommended it for ebikes 2 levels up)
        jacquesm 3y ago
        That depends: if you are at the edge of your range then the Enviolo may well cause you to have to pedal the hard way with a bike that feels as though you're going uphill all the time. I only see one positive about the Enviolo and that's that you can change to low gear at a traffic light even when you're stopped.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Because it eats up range like there is no tomorrow, makes all kinds of weird sounds, you need to keep it taut on the shifter to get to the highest gear ratio (it will 'unwind' all by itself if you don't do that), and once the batteries run out the bike is so heavy to cycle you may as well give up. And this is as good as it gets, nicely lubricated, regulated as good as possible. It's a very interesting idea but it is either not executed well enough or it is inherently problematic and it won't get better. Buying that bike was a serious mistake, fortunately that wasn't my decision because I'd feel miserable. CVT on a bike is a very nice feature and there are some really interesting developments in that space, but Enviolo isn't it, no matter how much it gets pushed.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  > Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers Rohloff hubs are made in Germany by a workforce that enjoys good working conditions, and moreover each hold a stake in the company. That’s something to remember any time you compare the price of a Rohloff hub to an Asian-made component.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    All of Asia has the same labor practices? What about Japan?
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      Working hours in Japan are infamously higher than the German standard, and vacation days fewer. At German companies, employees can also be much more direct and straightforward with their superiors. Sure, Shimano’s facilities in Japan are no Chinese or Malaysian sweatshop, but I like that a Rohloff purchase supports a higher quality of life.
    - oblio 3y ago
      German worker standards and unions are super strong. I'd say the onus is on the commenter to show that other countries do better than Germany, a world leader in worker rights.
scns 3y ago
You might like these, the even offer Pinions + belt drive bikes! https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us [disclaimer] Neither affiliated nor do i own one :(
- oblio 3y ago
  They should start making more low entry bikes (edit: low frame/no high cross bar). I guess biking is still dominated by guys and by racing. If bike commuting picks up, low entry bikes should outnumber sporty bikes 10:1, I hope. Edit: they only sell in the US, not in Europe :-( Edit: those are not commuting bikes :-))) Now, THESE are commuting bikes: https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    The market for Pinion bikes with belt drives is driven largely by bikes in Western Europe bought by families that need to transport children and shopping. A second market is people wanting a high-end bikepacking bike for expedition cycling. Those families and bikepackers are usually willing to spend several thousand euro for such a bike, so there is not yet the strong demand for low-entry bikes.
    - oblio 3y ago
      I meant "low entry" as in "easy to get on the bike". Low frame/no high cross bar. I didn't mean cheap, but I can see how it can be read that way :-)
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    IMO the mountain bike frame with a lowered crossbar is a pretty good compromise between stiffness and ease of entry.
    - ciupicri 3y ago
      Enduro mountain bikes tend to be lower, but they won't be great in the city. They're heavier, less efficient because of the dual suspension and the maxim chain ring size is around 34T (they usually come with only 30T or 32T if you're lucky).
MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
I've been watching his videos for a while when I was looking to build a bikepacking bike a few years back. For me, he's very good at what he does, but what he does is just a bit too extreme for what I want. I get how internal gears are great and reliable and probably a great choice if You need a bike that will carry 30kg of baggage for 20k+ kilometers and won't break. However, I don't plan on doing either of those things. I'm fairly happy to do my basic yearly maintenance myself (chain / cassette change), if in return I get a system that will cost me way less and has an upgrade tree that's an order of magnitude larger than that of belt drives. For me, part of the fun in bike building / maintenance is the fact that Your tastes / needs change. And to a good degree, if You stay in the mainstream components, bikes these days are pretty flexible / adaptable to that. In my case, I'd probably struggle with handlebars (I'm a fan of drops, which would probably limit my choice of shifters) and frame geometry (as I age, I'm starting to develop a pretty well honed taste for what size / fit do I want to have in a bike frame).
- oblio 3y ago
  Amusingly, his channel is probably interesting to a different audience than just bikepackers. Hard core no fuss commuters that don't ever want to touch or tinker with bike parts. The things that make a bike work well for 20k km in harsh conditions in Kazakhstan and India also make a bike work well with a child seat in the city during the summer and winter and out grocery shopping, etc.
  - MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
    sure, that was my idea for a while as well. My problem is that I live in a big city. And bike theft is a real problem. I would have loved to build me something around a Rohloff gearbox with a belt compatible frame, but that thing would set me back at least 2k EUR / USD. By comparison, my current commuter setup is a combo of two single speed bikes (one light, one with racks for more cargo / shopping capacity), either of which I got used for 50 and 100Eur respectively. And my current bikepacking bike is a 1200EUR steel Kona with some extra components slapped on top. Basically, I've got 3 bikes for 3 diferent uses for a price of that gearbox one.

by oblio 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago

> Internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability It is. But make sure you get a solid internal gear hub because they're not all made the same. Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers (that's a personal opinion, others may well disagree). B-brands or anything open or chain based is going to be a lot less reliable.

oblio 3y ago
> Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. He actually recommends Shimano Alfine 8, he finds it has a good balance between robustness and the way it handles.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Yes, that makes sense, the 8 is a nice optimum. But if you engineer for maximum reliability and still need more than 3 gears then that five is as good as it gets. It's the NEXUS SG-C7002-5CD 5-speed model, to be specific. There is also an e-bike one for even more torque applications.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    IMO for e-bike you probably should be looking at the enviolo CVTs. Sure they're a little less efficient but you can get 330% gear range with ridiculous durability and have the option for electronic shifting. (that said my bike is a non-ebike shimano alfine 8)
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Enviolo sucks. We have one Enviolo bike in the family. We use it as creative punishment. It sucks. Even for an e-bike.
      - oblio 3y ago
        Why does it suck?
        adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        they are slow and heavy. Specifically they are roughly 85% efficient compared to ~90% for an internal gearbox or ~95% for a derailer. They also add about 1 pound compared to a gearbox or 2 pounds compared to a 1x derailer system.
        oblio 3y ago
        Does it matter for ebikes? Especially for commuter bikes.
        adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        I'd argue no (that's why I recommended it for ebikes 2 levels up)
        jacquesm 3y ago
        That depends: if you are at the edge of your range then the Enviolo may well cause you to have to pedal the hard way with a bike that feels as though you're going uphill all the time. I only see one positive about the Enviolo and that's that you can change to low gear at a traffic light even when you're stopped.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Because it eats up range like there is no tomorrow, makes all kinds of weird sounds, you need to keep it taut on the shifter to get to the highest gear ratio (it will 'unwind' all by itself if you don't do that), and once the batteries run out the bike is so heavy to cycle you may as well give up. And this is as good as it gets, nicely lubricated, regulated as good as possible. It's a very interesting idea but it is either not executed well enough or it is inherently problematic and it won't get better. Buying that bike was a serious mistake, fortunately that wasn't my decision because I'd feel miserable. CVT on a bike is a very nice feature and there are some really interesting developments in that space, but Enviolo isn't it, no matter how much it gets pushed.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
> Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers Rohloff hubs are made in Germany by a workforce that enjoys good working conditions, and moreover each hold a stake in the company. That’s something to remember any time you compare the price of a Rohloff hub to an Asian-made component.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  All of Asia has the same labor practices? What about Japan?
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    Working hours in Japan are infamously higher than the German standard, and vacation days fewer. At German companies, employees can also be much more direct and straightforward with their superiors. Sure, Shimano’s facilities in Japan are no Chinese or Malaysian sweatshop, but I like that a Rohloff purchase supports a higher quality of life.
  - oblio 3y ago
    German worker standards and unions are super strong. I'd say the onus is on the commenter to show that other countries do better than Germany, a world leader in worker rights.

scns 3y ago

You might like these, the even offer Pinions + belt drive bikes! https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us [disclaimer] Neither affiliated nor do i own one :(

oblio 3y ago
They should start making more low entry bikes (edit: low frame/no high cross bar). I guess biking is still dominated by guys and by racing. If bike commuting picks up, low entry bikes should outnumber sporty bikes 10:1, I hope. Edit: they only sell in the US, not in Europe :-( Edit: those are not commuting bikes :-))) Now, THESE are commuting bikes: https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  The market for Pinion bikes with belt drives is driven largely by bikes in Western Europe bought by families that need to transport children and shopping. A second market is people wanting a high-end bikepacking bike for expedition cycling. Those families and bikepackers are usually willing to spend several thousand euro for such a bike, so there is not yet the strong demand for low-entry bikes.
  - oblio 3y ago
    I meant "low entry" as in "easy to get on the bike". Low frame/no high cross bar. I didn't mean cheap, but I can see how it can be read that way :-)
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  IMO the mountain bike frame with a lowered crossbar is a pretty good compromise between stiffness and ease of entry.
  - ciupicri 3y ago
    Enduro mountain bikes tend to be lower, but they won't be great in the city. They're heavier, less efficient because of the dual suspension and the maxim chain ring size is around 34T (they usually come with only 30T or 32T if you're lucky).

MezzoDelCammin 3y ago

I've been watching his videos for a while when I was looking to build a bikepacking bike a few years back. For me, he's very good at what he does, but what he does is just a bit too extreme for what I want. I get how internal gears are great and reliable and probably a great choice if You need a bike that will carry 30kg of baggage for 20k+ kilometers and won't break. However, I don't plan on doing either of those things. I'm fairly happy to do my basic yearly maintenance myself (chain / cassette change), if in return I get a system that will cost me way less and has an upgrade tree that's an order of magnitude larger than that of belt drives. For me, part of the fun in bike building / maintenance is the fact that Your tastes / needs change. And to a good degree, if You stay in the mainstream components, bikes these days are pretty flexible / adaptable to that. In my case, I'd probably struggle with handlebars (I'm a fan of drops, which would probably limit my choice of shifters) and frame geometry (as I age, I'm starting to develop a pretty well honed taste for what size / fit do I want to have in a bike frame).

oblio 3y ago
Amusingly, his channel is probably interesting to a different audience than just bikepackers. Hard core no fuss commuters that don't ever want to touch or tinker with bike parts. The things that make a bike work well for 20k km in harsh conditions in Kazakhstan and India also make a bike work well with a child seat in the city during the summer and winter and out grocery shopping, etc.
- MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
  sure, that was my idea for a while as well. My problem is that I live in a big city. And bike theft is a real problem. I would have loved to build me something around a Rohloff gearbox with a belt compatible frame, but that thing would set me back at least 2k EUR / USD. By comparison, my current commuter setup is a combo of two single speed bikes (one light, one with racks for more cargo / shopping capacity), either of which I got used for 50 and 100Eur respectively. And my current bikepacking bike is a 1200EUR steel Kona with some extra components slapped on top. Basically, I've got 3 bikes for 3 diferent uses for a price of that gearbox one.