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Sheldon's site was a great resource because it was meticulously organized information written by someone immensely respected for having expert knowledge from de

Sheldon's site was a great resource because it was meticulously organized information written by someone immensely respected for having expert knowledge from decades of being a bike mechanic and massive bike nerd who seemingly spent every waking hour of his life either riding, tinkering with, or repairing bikes. The site has been "maintained" (heavily edited and appended) by a guy named John Allen who I think mostly just knows a bunch of people in the retrogrouch scene (you know the types - $10k steel randonneur bikes), has never worked as a bike mechanic, seems to have little practical hands-on knowledge, and repeatedly pontificates about stuff he doesn't seem to have experience with. A lot of his additions and modifications seem to be his personal opinions. I don't know if it's since been revised, but the stuff he wrote about belt drive bikes years ago made it clear he was just parroting shit he'd read elsewhere by people who had never ridden one for an extended period of time or owned one. Despite what he claims, they're virtually unbeatable for all-weather transportation bikes.

oblio 3y ago
I'm a total newb regarding bikes but this Youtube channel seems quite solid from a distance regarding reliable bikes: https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout Considering he's the kind of person that rides around the world, and that the suggestions seem well presented, internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > Internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability It is. But make sure you get a solid internal gear hub because they're not all made the same. Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers (that's a personal opinion, others may well disagree). B-brands or anything open or chain based is going to be a lot less reliable.
  - oblio 3y ago
    > Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. He actually recommends Shimano Alfine 8, he finds it has a good balance between robustness and the way it handles.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Yes, that makes sense, the 8 is a nice optimum. But if you engineer for maximum reliability and still need more than 3 gears then that five is as good as it gets. It's the NEXUS SG-C7002-5CD 5-speed model, to be specific. There is also an e-bike one for even more torque applications.
      - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        IMO for e-bike you probably should be looking at the enviolo CVTs. Sure they're a little less efficient but you can get 330% gear range with ridiculous durability and have the option for electronic shifting. (that said my bike is a non-ebike shimano alfine 8)
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Enviolo sucks. We have one Enviolo bike in the family. We use it as creative punishment. It sucks. Even for an e-bike.
        oblio 3y ago
        Why does it suck?
        adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        they are slow and heavy. Specifically they are roughly 85% efficient compared to ~90% for an internal gearbox or ~95% for a derailer. They also add about 1 pound compared to a gearbox or 2 pounds compared to a 1x derailer system.
- scns 3y ago
  You might like these, the even offer Pinions + belt drive bikes! https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us [disclaimer] Neither affiliated nor do i own one :(
  - oblio 3y ago
    They should start making more low entry bikes (edit: low frame/no high cross bar). I guess biking is still dominated by guys and by racing. If bike commuting picks up, low entry bikes should outnumber sporty bikes 10:1, I hope. Edit: they only sell in the US, not in Europe :-( Edit: those are not commuting bikes :-))) Now, THESE are commuting bikes: https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      The market for Pinion bikes with belt drives is driven largely by bikes in Western Europe bought by families that need to transport children and shopping. A second market is people wanting a high-end bikepacking bike for expedition cycling. Those families and bikepackers are usually willing to spend several thousand euro for such a bike, so there is not yet the strong demand for low-entry bikes.
      - oblio 3y ago
        I meant "low entry" as in "easy to get on the bike". Low frame/no high cross bar. I didn't mean cheap, but I can see how it can be read that way :-)
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      IMO the mountain bike frame with a lowered crossbar is a pretty good compromise between stiffness and ease of entry.
      - ciupicri 3y ago
        Enduro mountain bikes tend to be lower, but they won't be great in the city. They're heavier, less efficient because of the dual suspension and the maxim chain ring size is around 34T (they usually come with only 30T or 32T if you're lucky).
- MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
  I've been watching his videos for a while when I was looking to build a bikepacking bike a few years back. For me, he's very good at what he does, but what he does is just a bit too extreme for what I want. I get how internal gears are great and reliable and probably a great choice if You need a bike that will carry 30kg of baggage for 20k+ kilometers and won't break. However, I don't plan on doing either of those things. I'm fairly happy to do my basic yearly maintenance myself (chain / cassette change), if in return I get a system that will cost me way less and has an upgrade tree that's an order of magnitude larger than that of belt drives. For me, part of the fun in bike building / maintenance is the fact that Your tastes / needs change. And to a good degree, if You stay in the mainstream components, bikes these days are pretty flexible / adaptable to that. In my case, I'd probably struggle with handlebars (I'm a fan of drops, which would probably limit my choice of shifters) and frame geometry (as I age, I'm starting to develop a pretty well honed taste for what size / fit do I want to have in a bike frame).
  - oblio 3y ago
    Amusingly, his channel is probably interesting to a different audience than just bikepackers. Hard core no fuss commuters that don't ever want to touch or tinker with bike parts. The things that make a bike work well for 20k km in harsh conditions in Kazakhstan and India also make a bike work well with a child seat in the city during the summer and winter and out grocery shopping, etc.
    - MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
      sure, that was my idea for a while as well. My problem is that I live in a big city. And bike theft is a real problem. I would have loved to build me something around a Rohloff gearbox with a belt compatible frame, but that thing would set me back at least 2k EUR / USD. By comparison, my current commuter setup is a combo of two single speed bikes (one light, one with racks for more cargo / shopping capacity), either of which I got used for 50 and 100Eur respectively. And my current bikepacking bike is a 1200EUR steel Kona with some extra components slapped on top. Basically, I've got 3 bikes for 3 diferent uses for a price of that gearbox one.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
> $10k steel randonneur bikes Where is this a thing? I’m fairly familiar with retro-grouch bike brands, and their products cost less than half of that. Today when carbon frames, Rohloff hubs, or Pinion gearboxes are all the rage, and those are very expensive parts that push up the cost of a bike by thousands, retro-grouch steel bikes often seem cheap in comparison. One exception is when the frame is custom-made in a Western country instead of outsourced to Taiwan like most brands, but that still shouldn’t reach $10K.
johnwalkr 3y ago
I think outside of niche applications like extreme weather, fleet delivery or public share e-bikes, internal gear hubs and belts aren’t worth it. The efficiency is noticeable if you switch bikes or ride beside someone with a “normal” bike. Especially not worth it now that midrange bikes come with disc brakes and 1x10 or 1x12 derailleur drivetrains (no front derailleur) that are reliable, efficient, light and inexpensive. Without a front derailleur adjustment is a cinch and any difficulty or mental load for a casual rider to change gears goes away. Things going slightly out of adjustment and then over time some gear combinations causing your chain to skip or fall off is almost a thing of the past. And only the drivetrain is lower maintenance. Brakes are the same (unless you also decide you don’t really need effective brakes and go with roller/drum brakes over disc brakes). Maintenance of tires/punctures is much more time consuming.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  it depends what you mean by extreme weather. I use my bike for a daily commute in Boston and I love having a gearbox because even though the winter doesn't get that cold (only a few days below freezing this year), rain and salt and snow and dirt will absolutely get into your chain with a chain bike. The CVTs have a really noticable efficiency loss, but the geared ones (alfine or rohloff) are pretty close to a derailer efficiency. Also for city biking, the ability to shift without pedaling is really nice.
  - johnwalkr 3y ago
    It definitely depends on your definition of extreme weather. I've been more of a "take the train unless the weather is nice" or "cycle unless the weather is bad" person at various stages/places. So I admit I am biased. In my defense I have been shopping for commuter bikes recently and I don't see any compelling options (actually no options from most brands) compared to 1x10 and 1x12 bikes this year. I've also seen noticeable efficiency loss in my old Nexus 7speed bike compared to others and never considered getting another IGH bike after that one.
- ciupicri 3y ago
  Changing gears using a front derailleur is a pain in the ass, but cleaning and lubricating the chain (+casette +chain rings) after every ride in the rain, is not?! When it's not raining, there's also the issue of dust. You don't need super duper brakes for casual riding, hydraulic disk brakes are good enough without much maintenance, maybe just once per year. Unless the tires are skinny, they shouldn't puncture very often and replacing them isn't that hard or expensive. You won't break any speed records with a belt and an internal gearhub, but they aren't that inefficient especially when you don't waste time or money cleaning the traditional drivetrain.

oblio 3y ago

I'm a total newb regarding bikes but this Youtube channel seems quite solid from a distance regarding reliable bikes: https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout https://www.youtube.com/@Cyclingabout Considering he's the kind of person that rides around the world, and that the suggestions seem well presented, internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability.

jacquesm 3y ago
> Internal gear hub + belt drive seems like a solid combo for reliability It is. But make sure you get a solid internal gear hub because they're not all made the same. Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. Rohloff is beautiful but I think it is overpriced for what it offers (that's a personal opinion, others may well disagree). B-brands or anything open or chain based is going to be a lot less reliable.
- oblio 3y ago
  > Shimano has an indestructible five gear model, the higher the number of gears the less torque the hub can deal with. He actually recommends Shimano Alfine 8, he finds it has a good balance between robustness and the way it handles.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Yes, that makes sense, the 8 is a nice optimum. But if you engineer for maximum reliability and still need more than 3 gears then that five is as good as it gets. It's the NEXUS SG-C7002-5CD 5-speed model, to be specific. There is also an e-bike one for even more torque applications.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      IMO for e-bike you probably should be looking at the enviolo CVTs. Sure they're a little less efficient but you can get 330% gear range with ridiculous durability and have the option for electronic shifting. (that said my bike is a non-ebike shimano alfine 8)
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Enviolo sucks. We have one Enviolo bike in the family. We use it as creative punishment. It sucks. Even for an e-bike.
        oblio 3y ago
        Why does it suck?
        adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        they are slow and heavy. Specifically they are roughly 85% efficient compared to ~90% for an internal gearbox or ~95% for a derailer. They also add about 1 pound compared to a gearbox or 2 pounds compared to a 1x derailer system.
scns 3y ago
You might like these, the even offer Pinions + belt drive bikes! https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us https://www.prioritybicycles.com/pages/about-us [disclaimer] Neither affiliated nor do i own one :(
- oblio 3y ago
  They should start making more low entry bikes (edit: low frame/no high cross bar). I guess biking is still dominated by guys and by racing. If bike commuting picks up, low entry bikes should outnumber sporty bikes 10:1, I hope. Edit: they only sell in the US, not in Europe :-( Edit: those are not commuting bikes :-))) Now, THESE are commuting bikes: https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen https://www.batavus.nl/elektrische-fietsen
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    The market for Pinion bikes with belt drives is driven largely by bikes in Western Europe bought by families that need to transport children and shopping. A second market is people wanting a high-end bikepacking bike for expedition cycling. Those families and bikepackers are usually willing to spend several thousand euro for such a bike, so there is not yet the strong demand for low-entry bikes.
    - oblio 3y ago
      I meant "low entry" as in "easy to get on the bike". Low frame/no high cross bar. I didn't mean cheap, but I can see how it can be read that way :-)
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    IMO the mountain bike frame with a lowered crossbar is a pretty good compromise between stiffness and ease of entry.
    - ciupicri 3y ago
      Enduro mountain bikes tend to be lower, but they won't be great in the city. They're heavier, less efficient because of the dual suspension and the maxim chain ring size is around 34T (they usually come with only 30T or 32T if you're lucky).
MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
I've been watching his videos for a while when I was looking to build a bikepacking bike a few years back. For me, he's very good at what he does, but what he does is just a bit too extreme for what I want. I get how internal gears are great and reliable and probably a great choice if You need a bike that will carry 30kg of baggage for 20k+ kilometers and won't break. However, I don't plan on doing either of those things. I'm fairly happy to do my basic yearly maintenance myself (chain / cassette change), if in return I get a system that will cost me way less and has an upgrade tree that's an order of magnitude larger than that of belt drives. For me, part of the fun in bike building / maintenance is the fact that Your tastes / needs change. And to a good degree, if You stay in the mainstream components, bikes these days are pretty flexible / adaptable to that. In my case, I'd probably struggle with handlebars (I'm a fan of drops, which would probably limit my choice of shifters) and frame geometry (as I age, I'm starting to develop a pretty well honed taste for what size / fit do I want to have in a bike frame).
- oblio 3y ago
  Amusingly, his channel is probably interesting to a different audience than just bikepackers. Hard core no fuss commuters that don't ever want to touch or tinker with bike parts. The things that make a bike work well for 20k km in harsh conditions in Kazakhstan and India also make a bike work well with a child seat in the city during the summer and winter and out grocery shopping, etc.
  - MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
    sure, that was my idea for a while as well. My problem is that I live in a big city. And bike theft is a real problem. I would have loved to build me something around a Rohloff gearbox with a belt compatible frame, but that thing would set me back at least 2k EUR / USD. By comparison, my current commuter setup is a combo of two single speed bikes (one light, one with racks for more cargo / shopping capacity), either of which I got used for 50 and 100Eur respectively. And my current bikepacking bike is a 1200EUR steel Kona with some extra components slapped on top. Basically, I've got 3 bikes for 3 diferent uses for a price of that gearbox one.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

> $10k steel randonneur bikes Where is this a thing? I’m fairly familiar with retro-grouch bike brands, and their products cost less than half of that. Today when carbon frames, Rohloff hubs, or Pinion gearboxes are all the rage, and those are very expensive parts that push up the cost of a bike by thousands, retro-grouch steel bikes often seem cheap in comparison. One exception is when the frame is custom-made in a Western country instead of outsourced to Taiwan like most brands, but that still shouldn’t reach $10K.

johnwalkr 3y ago

I think outside of niche applications like extreme weather, fleet delivery or public share e-bikes, internal gear hubs and belts aren’t worth it. The efficiency is noticeable if you switch bikes or ride beside someone with a “normal” bike. Especially not worth it now that midrange bikes come with disc brakes and 1x10 or 1x12 derailleur drivetrains (no front derailleur) that are reliable, efficient, light and inexpensive. Without a front derailleur adjustment is a cinch and any difficulty or mental load for a casual rider to change gears goes away. Things going slightly out of adjustment and then over time some gear combinations causing your chain to skip or fall off is almost a thing of the past. And only the drivetrain is lower maintenance. Brakes are the same (unless you also decide you don’t really need effective brakes and go with roller/drum brakes over disc brakes). Maintenance of tires/punctures is much more time consuming.

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
it depends what you mean by extreme weather. I use my bike for a daily commute in Boston and I love having a gearbox because even though the winter doesn't get that cold (only a few days below freezing this year), rain and salt and snow and dirt will absolutely get into your chain with a chain bike. The CVTs have a really noticable efficiency loss, but the geared ones (alfine or rohloff) are pretty close to a derailer efficiency. Also for city biking, the ability to shift without pedaling is really nice.
- johnwalkr 3y ago
  It definitely depends on your definition of extreme weather. I've been more of a "take the train unless the weather is nice" or "cycle unless the weather is bad" person at various stages/places. So I admit I am biased. In my defense I have been shopping for commuter bikes recently and I don't see any compelling options (actually no options from most brands) compared to 1x10 and 1x12 bikes this year. I've also seen noticeable efficiency loss in my old Nexus 7speed bike compared to others and never considered getting another IGH bike after that one.
ciupicri 3y ago
Changing gears using a front derailleur is a pain in the ass, but cleaning and lubricating the chain (+casette +chain rings) after every ride in the rain, is not?! When it's not raining, there's also the issue of dust. You don't need super duper brakes for casual riding, hydraulic disk brakes are good enough without much maintenance, maybe just once per year. Unless the tires are skinny, they shouldn't puncture very often and replacing them isn't that hard or expensive. You won't break any speed records with a belt and an internal gearhub, but they aren't that inefficient especially when you don't waste time or money cleaning the traditional drivetrain.