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Over many years of using the internet, I’ve found that the most viral ideas only have a maximum of one point to them. Additional points or context only add bagg

Over many years of using the internet, I’ve found that the most viral ideas only have a maximum of one point to them. Additional points or context only add baggage to the points made, and ensure that the idea either doesn’t spread very far or just get left behind in discourse entirely. It’s easier on Reddit and Twitter and HN (to probably a lesser extent) to communicate and upvote “your side” if an idea is as simple and distinguishable from “the other side” as possible. So we get “build baby build” and “r/fuckcars” and “microservices vs monoliths” and “OOP vs FP” and all the nuance of the argument gets lost. I agree with this article that building new housing is only one of many interventions that government will need to handle to bring down the cost of housing. But I don’t think the idea will ever go as “viral” as the supply and demand arguments that you see everywhere.

sam0x17 3y ago
The majority voting (and donating) block, old people, are all becoming ridiculously rich from their $15k houses they built/inherited/bought 30-40 years ago, many of which are now valued over $1m. Nothing will change on this front until millennials are the majority voting block. If anything it's going to get worse before it gets better.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  Not sure why a new generation would change anything. It seems like it is homeowners vs non. The millisecond someone acquires property, it is in their financial interest to protect it as an investment.
  - sam0x17 3y ago
    Not if their first impulse is to sell it and then build a house. Now we have two houses, which does what to the price? Oh, makes it go down. And if they're building a house, their voting and lobbying at least for a few years will be in line with keeping construction costs down.
  - MattGaiser 3y ago
    And millennials are majority owners now. https://thehill.com/homenews/3939854-half-of-millennials-now-own-homes-new-data-finds/ https://thehill.com/homenews/3939854-half-of-millennials-now...
    - sam0x17 3y ago
      "on a 30 year mortgage that you can't afford and could disappear if your employment situation changes" != "owning a home"
      - MattGaiser 3y ago
        Same incentive to keep the price up. Being underwater on a home that you owe more to the bank on also sucks.
        sam0x17 3y ago
        but if they're underwater, they aren't exactly lobbying, they're just people with no voice beyond whatever candidates corporate america has put on the menu of the day
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - jmye 3y ago
        Which is, of course, a data-less assertion that appears nowhere in the linked article. Or do you think Millenials as a whole are completely helpless and too stupid to properly assess mortgage terms?
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  Won't millennials eventually inherit those houses?
  - sam0x17 3y ago
    I don't see millennials being complicit with greedily jacking up the prices like boomers and others have been when one of the core experiences of being a millennial has been that you have to be a multi-millionaire to afford a home because of the decisions of our parents and their parents. Everything our parents got essentially for free or minimal effort (house, college, pension) is now 10x harder to obtain. It's just a different vibe and you don't just forget that. Sure, things will feel different when a lot of millennials suddenly own something for the first time in their lives in like 20 years, but I simply don't see them forgetting their roots when their legacy has been "we were fucked over by our parents". By then many of those houses, built with cheap 1970s and 1980s construction practices, will need to be rebuilt from the ground up by then anyway, and millennials have already shown a strong preference for building from scratch when given the opportunity. I think a huge percent are going to immediately sell and then build their own, which means they will care about affordable building costs, etc. They aren't going to long hold these houses, which means there will be plenty of houses on the market as well as plenty of new construction, which equals lower housing costs. Also, I think a surprisingly high number of these boomers are going to reverse mortgage everything (or similar situations like sell the house to pay for the luxury nursing home) as a final fuck you, meaning millennials won't be as flush with cash as one would hope. Such things are just in the DNA of that generation it seems. By many metrics, boomers have been more conservative and more selfish than generations before and after them. They really are a special bunch.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 3y ago
      > I don't see millennials being complicit with greedily jacking up the prices like boomers and others have been when one of the core experiences of being a millennial has been that you have to be a multi-millionaire to afford a home because of the decisions of our parents and their parents. We would not be the first, nor will be the last, generation to mistakenly believe itself morally superior to the ones that came before.
- fallingfrog 3y ago
  I get this argument but.. also I have problems with it. Even if your net worth increases on paper, if you’re living in the home that’s meaningless, because that value doesn’t mean anything until you sell it. So for most old people the increase in value is actually a problem, because it means that their property taxes go up. The only people that really benefit from this is large institutional investors, and maybe house flippers. That’s where I would assume the political pressure is coming from.
  - sam0x17 3y ago
    At this point, I don't know a single person from that generation that hasn't sold their home at least once in the last decade.

sam0x17 3y ago

The majority voting (and donating) block, old people, are all becoming ridiculously rich from their $15k houses they built/inherited/bought 30-40 years ago, many of which are now valued over $1m. Nothing will change on this front until millennials are the majority voting block. If anything it's going to get worse before it gets better.

fbdab103 3y ago
Not sure why a new generation would change anything. It seems like it is homeowners vs non. The millisecond someone acquires property, it is in their financial interest to protect it as an investment.
- sam0x17 3y ago
  Not if their first impulse is to sell it and then build a house. Now we have two houses, which does what to the price? Oh, makes it go down. And if they're building a house, their voting and lobbying at least for a few years will be in line with keeping construction costs down.
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  And millennials are majority owners now. https://thehill.com/homenews/3939854-half-of-millennials-now-own-homes-new-data-finds/ https://thehill.com/homenews/3939854-half-of-millennials-now...
  - sam0x17 3y ago
    "on a 30 year mortgage that you can't afford and could disappear if your employment situation changes" != "owning a home"
    - MattGaiser 3y ago
      Same incentive to keep the price up. Being underwater on a home that you owe more to the bank on also sucks.
      - sam0x17 3y ago
        but if they're underwater, they aren't exactly lobbying, they're just people with no voice beyond whatever candidates corporate america has put on the menu of the day
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - jmye 3y ago
      Which is, of course, a data-less assertion that appears nowhere in the linked article. Or do you think Millenials as a whole are completely helpless and too stupid to properly assess mortgage terms?
mupuff1234 3y ago
Won't millennials eventually inherit those houses?
- sam0x17 3y ago
  I don't see millennials being complicit with greedily jacking up the prices like boomers and others have been when one of the core experiences of being a millennial has been that you have to be a multi-millionaire to afford a home because of the decisions of our parents and their parents. Everything our parents got essentially for free or minimal effort (house, college, pension) is now 10x harder to obtain. It's just a different vibe and you don't just forget that. Sure, things will feel different when a lot of millennials suddenly own something for the first time in their lives in like 20 years, but I simply don't see them forgetting their roots when their legacy has been "we were fucked over by our parents". By then many of those houses, built with cheap 1970s and 1980s construction practices, will need to be rebuilt from the ground up by then anyway, and millennials have already shown a strong preference for building from scratch when given the opportunity. I think a huge percent are going to immediately sell and then build their own, which means they will care about affordable building costs, etc. They aren't going to long hold these houses, which means there will be plenty of houses on the market as well as plenty of new construction, which equals lower housing costs. Also, I think a surprisingly high number of these boomers are going to reverse mortgage everything (or similar situations like sell the house to pay for the luxury nursing home) as a final fuck you, meaning millennials won't be as flush with cash as one would hope. Such things are just in the DNA of that generation it seems. By many metrics, boomers have been more conservative and more selfish than generations before and after them. They really are a special bunch.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 3y ago
    > I don't see millennials being complicit with greedily jacking up the prices like boomers and others have been when one of the core experiences of being a millennial has been that you have to be a multi-millionaire to afford a home because of the decisions of our parents and their parents. We would not be the first, nor will be the last, generation to mistakenly believe itself morally superior to the ones that came before.
fallingfrog 3y ago
I get this argument but.. also I have problems with it. Even if your net worth increases on paper, if you’re living in the home that’s meaningless, because that value doesn’t mean anything until you sell it. So for most old people the increase in value is actually a problem, because it means that their property taxes go up. The only people that really benefit from this is large institutional investors, and maybe house flippers. That’s where I would assume the political pressure is coming from.
- sam0x17 3y ago
  At this point, I don't know a single person from that generation that hasn't sold their home at least once in the last decade.