3 ms·

> In those environments, unions typically protect unproductive peers, and limit high-performer's maximum compensation. What made it shake out differently for t

> In those environments, unions typically protect unproductive peers, and limit high-performer's maximum compensation. What made it shake out differently for the Screen Actors Guild? Clearly there the high-performers earn top money, yet they are in a union.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
See also, the NBA. The average person in tech is no where near as talented at their job, hard-working, or disciplined as the average NBA player, yet the latter has a union while the former do not.
Alupis 3y ago
I would posit the SAG doesn't actually do much for your Brad Pitt's and Angelina Jolie's. Those top-tier actors represent the SAG more than they are protected or benefited by the SAG. Your top tier actors literally fill seats - so like Sports Stars they are compensated by their star power more than anything else. Brad Pitt deciding to accept or decline a role can earn or lose a movie millions. Meanwhile, your typical working union compels high school kids to pay dues for what exactly? Minimum wage, and a lunch break? A union in SFX will result in gatekeeping a ton of people out of the industry. It will raise wages for a select few that were blessed by the union and allowed to work in the industry, and everyone else will have to find alternate industries to work in. Doesn't sound like a net-win for everyone... With SFX in particular, the issue is there's a zillion people willing to replace you and work for less with even more demanding hours. I don't know how you fix that industry-wide, but I'm betting a union's solution isn't as rosy as people think. As an aside - where was the SAG during all these Weinstein and Polanski situations? These went on decades and nobody was protected from being abused by powerful gatekeepers. What does SAG even do?
- labster 3y ago
  Somehow I feel like asking a union to stop an employer’s criminal behavior is outside the scope of a union. Maybe you’re thinking about law enforcement?
  - Alupis 3y ago
    A union represents the employee, and if that employee is prevented from securing a position unfairly, or that employee is abused while in that position, it's entirely on the union to represent that employee and demand a resolution. This entire discussion revolves around a fictitious VFX union resolving abuses within the industry... so why would SAG receive a pass? The SAG pretended like none of this was happening. We probably only know about the tip of the abusive-iceberg countless actresses endured.
    - labster 3y ago
      It’s not just actresses. A friend of mine worked for entertainment news and was “propositioned” by Harvey Weinstein. As far as I know it was an open secret in the business. A union can’t just take action by outing the women who could have complained. And largely the affected women decided that they would rather make money than be disbelieved by media and courts on a rape allegation. Let’s say the union has your back: then what? SAG can’t guarantee you won’t be silently blacklisted as a troublemaker by individual directors making hiring decisions. They can’t guarantee you’ll be taken seriously by the police and courts. #MeToo was a watershed moment, and it’s hard to see how a union could have made the social structural stars align in our entire culture any earlier than it actually happened.
      - Alupis 3y ago
        The union literally exists to protect actors and actresses from the very thing they failed to protect against. What does the SAG even do? They don't seem to be protecting or advocating for anyone.
- krisoft 3y ago
  Do note that you haven’t even attempted to answer my question.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

See also, the NBA. The average person in tech is no where near as talented at their job, hard-working, or disciplined as the average NBA player, yet the latter has a union while the former do not.

Alupis 3y ago

I would posit the SAG doesn't actually do much for your Brad Pitt's and Angelina Jolie's. Those top-tier actors represent the SAG more than they are protected or benefited by the SAG. Your top tier actors literally fill seats - so like Sports Stars they are compensated by their star power more than anything else. Brad Pitt deciding to accept or decline a role can earn or lose a movie millions. Meanwhile, your typical working union compels high school kids to pay dues for what exactly? Minimum wage, and a lunch break? A union in SFX will result in gatekeeping a ton of people out of the industry. It will raise wages for a select few that were blessed by the union and allowed to work in the industry, and everyone else will have to find alternate industries to work in. Doesn't sound like a net-win for everyone... With SFX in particular, the issue is there's a zillion people willing to replace you and work for less with even more demanding hours. I don't know how you fix that industry-wide, but I'm betting a union's solution isn't as rosy as people think. As an aside - where was the SAG during all these Weinstein and Polanski situations? These went on decades and nobody was protected from being abused by powerful gatekeepers. What does SAG even do?

labster 3y ago
Somehow I feel like asking a union to stop an employer’s criminal behavior is outside the scope of a union. Maybe you’re thinking about law enforcement?
- Alupis 3y ago
  A union represents the employee, and if that employee is prevented from securing a position unfairly, or that employee is abused while in that position, it's entirely on the union to represent that employee and demand a resolution. This entire discussion revolves around a fictitious VFX union resolving abuses within the industry... so why would SAG receive a pass? The SAG pretended like none of this was happening. We probably only know about the tip of the abusive-iceberg countless actresses endured.
  - labster 3y ago
    It’s not just actresses. A friend of mine worked for entertainment news and was “propositioned” by Harvey Weinstein. As far as I know it was an open secret in the business. A union can’t just take action by outing the women who could have complained. And largely the affected women decided that they would rather make money than be disbelieved by media and courts on a rape allegation. Let’s say the union has your back: then what? SAG can’t guarantee you won’t be silently blacklisted as a troublemaker by individual directors making hiring decisions. They can’t guarantee you’ll be taken seriously by the police and courts. #MeToo was a watershed moment, and it’s hard to see how a union could have made the social structural stars align in our entire culture any earlier than it actually happened.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      The union literally exists to protect actors and actresses from the very thing they failed to protect against. What does the SAG even do? They don't seem to be protecting or advocating for anyone.
krisoft 3y ago
Do note that you haven’t even attempted to answer my question.