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> How much of Tesla do you think is Musk? Tesla's valuation is mostly Musk. "Infinite demand", "full self-driving"... the SEC should have cracked down on him a

> How much of Tesla do you think is Musk? Tesla's valuation is mostly Musk. "Infinite demand", "full self-driving"... the SEC should have cracked down on him a long time ago but they seem unwilling to do so. Ultimately reality will win out and Tesla's stock will realign. That hasn't happened because Musk has an army of fanboys he can use to pump the stock, apparent ins at the SEC and a very aggressive call buying program on Tesla. I don't think anyone other than Musk could get away with pumping the stock like he has, so the valuation is mostly dependent on him.

agumonkey 3y ago
You think it's all games ? when I see a panel of videos(sandy munroe may be fan boy, I dont know, his reviews seems to be detailed at least), there are regularly a few things that seems impressive. Competition seems to have difficulties catching up, chargers are improving, single cast car body seems to be a big benefit for factory simplification, they still had the best engine (and the adaptive reluctance idea seemed to be, again, ahead of anything else on market). New models are said to now be designed to be robotics friendly from day 1 which would again reduce costs. The embedded computer is said to, again, be years ahead of other brands. The cars have a lot of defects (windshield, doors, seats) but on the EV side of things .. they seem to keep driving the market. And I'm not much of a fanboy .. especially since musk started to push beta SDV on the roads (and the twitter shipwreck is not helping)
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  > You think it's all games? Yes, because I'm talking about the valuation which is completely divorced from fundamentals and entirely based on Musk's hype of non-existent products like robotaxis and the cyber truck. They're a small, boutique car manufacturer with a $769B market cap. To put things into perspective, GM has a market cap of $51.5B.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Cybertruck is literally in production. The idea that its 'not real' is some conspiracy theory nonsense. Yes it was late, but claiming it doesn't exist is just stupid. They are not actually 'small' anymore, they are at a 2 million a year run rate and growing. > GM has a market cap of $51.5B Yes and have you considered why that is? Look at how many vehicles GM sold in 2008 and then now, it continues to go down. They are retreating from markets. Their EV division has been a complete failure with their ultium platform barley producing a few 1000 cars. They are surviving because of ICE SUV/Pickups in the US market but have basically no chance to do much beyond that. And that market is under massive attack over the next half decade.
    - bluefishinit 3y ago
      > Cybertruck is literally in production. The idea that its 'not real' is some conspiracy theory nonsense. It's not real. You can't buy it, it has no credible deadline for shipping. > GM has a market cap of $51.5B > Yes and have you considered why that is? Yes, the fundamentals of their business dictate this market valuation. Unlike Tesla where the price is dictated by Elon's pumping (and occasional dumping).
      - panick21_ 3y ago
        [flagged]
        bluefishinit 3y ago
        So when can I buy a cybertruck then?
        panick21_ 3y ago
        [flagged]
        nickthegreek 3y ago
        Are the trucks in peoples possession? I think that is what OP is getting at. As a buyer who needs a car, do I know when one will show up to my door? That is literally what matters. Apple Vision Pro "exists", but that's worthless until its in customers hands.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Their valuation is far beyond what can be justified by any company that makes and sells cars. IIRC they have (had?) a higher market cap than every other car company combined. Their valuation is based on being a "tech company" like FAANG, and somehow making more money by offering robo-taxis or something than selling cars.
panick21_ 3y ago
[flagged]

agumonkey 3y ago

You think it's all games ? when I see a panel of videos(sandy munroe may be fan boy, I dont know, his reviews seems to be detailed at least), there are regularly a few things that seems impressive. Competition seems to have difficulties catching up, chargers are improving, single cast car body seems to be a big benefit for factory simplification, they still had the best engine (and the adaptive reluctance idea seemed to be, again, ahead of anything else on market). New models are said to now be designed to be robotics friendly from day 1 which would again reduce costs. The embedded computer is said to, again, be years ahead of other brands. The cars have a lot of defects (windshield, doors, seats) but on the EV side of things .. they seem to keep driving the market. And I'm not much of a fanboy .. especially since musk started to push beta SDV on the roads (and the twitter shipwreck is not helping)

bluefishinit 3y ago
> You think it's all games? Yes, because I'm talking about the valuation which is completely divorced from fundamentals and entirely based on Musk's hype of non-existent products like robotaxis and the cyber truck. They're a small, boutique car manufacturer with a $769B market cap. To put things into perspective, GM has a market cap of $51.5B.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Cybertruck is literally in production. The idea that its 'not real' is some conspiracy theory nonsense. Yes it was late, but claiming it doesn't exist is just stupid. They are not actually 'small' anymore, they are at a 2 million a year run rate and growing. > GM has a market cap of $51.5B Yes and have you considered why that is? Look at how many vehicles GM sold in 2008 and then now, it continues to go down. They are retreating from markets. Their EV division has been a complete failure with their ultium platform barley producing a few 1000 cars. They are surviving because of ICE SUV/Pickups in the US market but have basically no chance to do much beyond that. And that market is under massive attack over the next half decade.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    > Cybertruck is literally in production. The idea that its 'not real' is some conspiracy theory nonsense. It's not real. You can't buy it, it has no credible deadline for shipping. > GM has a market cap of $51.5B > Yes and have you considered why that is? Yes, the fundamentals of their business dictate this market valuation. Unlike Tesla where the price is dictated by Elon's pumping (and occasional dumping).
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - bluefishinit 3y ago
        So when can I buy a cybertruck then?
        panick21_ 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        Are the trucks in peoples possession? I think that is what OP is getting at. As a buyer who needs a car, do I know when one will show up to my door? That is literally what matters. Apple Vision Pro "exists", but that's worthless until its in customers hands.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kalleboo 3y ago
Their valuation is far beyond what can be justified by any company that makes and sells cars. IIRC they have (had?) a higher market cap than every other car company combined. Their valuation is based on being a "tech company" like FAANG, and somehow making more money by offering robo-taxis or something than selling cars.

panick21_ 3y ago

[flagged]